EV parking priority

[Yggdrasill]

I think the solution is to offer basic charging infrastructure to every parking space (or almost every parking space), for free, and have additional DC charging available for those who are willing to pay for that. We aren't talking about a huge investment, even to supply power to every parking space.

For larger installations it should be fairly cheap to put up charging posts that can supply 230V/16A (or 120V/30A in the US). I'm thinking around $1000 per parking space. For a business with 20 parking spaces, that makes for an investment of $20,000, which isn't that much, spread out over maybe 10 years.

I think we also have a viable path for businesses to arrive at this conclusion by themselves. As EV use increases, the businesses with sufficient charging infrastructure will attract more customers, and prosper. The businesses who do not cater to the increasing number of EV owners, will eventually see that their revenue starts decreasing, and they have to do something about their parking facilities.

This is entirely equivalent to free parking - around here at least, businesses who do not offer free parking, at least for an hour or two, don't stay in business very long. Yet, you won't find free parking anywhere really attractive, just as you won't find free charging that is really attractive (high power). That is the direction we are taking, imho.

[ElSupreme]

This is entirely equivalent to free parking - around here at least, businesses who do not offer free parking, at least for an hour or two, don't stay in business very long. Yet, you won't find free parking anywhere really attractive, just as you won't find free charging that is really attractive (high power). That is the direction we are taking, imho.

What Yggdrasill said!

[Lloyd]

Perhaps something like Validation, or tokens from participating businesses to pay for your charging?

[mattjs33]

Except you do use it. If 1 person uses an EV instead of a gasoline the air ends up cleaner. Your air. This is like saying you wont use 'x' road. It isn't that particular piece of road it is the transportation network as a whole that gives benefits to all.

There is a fundamental difference in SCALE here. A charging station would be like handing out ketchup packets of gasoline to fill your car. You can't put $60 of electricity in your car in 120 seconds. Heck a empty 85kWh vehicle could only consume about $5 of commercial electricity.

This personally seems much more overbearing and 'big government' than subsidizing plugs at locations you want to leave your car at anyway. The subsidy is voluntary and wouldn't produce a bunch of chargers at locations where I don't want to be stuck at for 30-45 minutes.

I disagree but you may well be correct. One of the great things about getting a Model S is that I won't have to go to a gas station again.

The cost of the electricity is so small, and the costs of the chargers and installation ports is sufficiently high that the recoup install costs by charging for electricity (or time to avoid regulated utility laws) falls apart. Either you have to WAY overcharge for electricity to get you money back, which really puts their use to 'necessity only'. I won't pay $10 to charge at the grocery store when I can charge at home for $1. I will make sure I find a store within a round trip range of my EV.

What business are you at for only 120 seconds??? I can't even get through the Taco Bell drive-thru in less than 5 minutes!

As I understand it, the point of an electric car is not cheaper fueling, but cleaner emissions and not using oil. Even charging at home, it will take many years to recoup the additional cost of an electric car from the fuel cost savings. So if you find it too expensive to pay to charge, then charge at home, just like you say. But wouldn't it be nice to know you could go anywhere you want, whenever you want? Would you pay a little more to do so? It's also cheaper to drive to Vegas, but I'll still gladly pay to fly there.

The government has no problem telling us what kind of light bulbs we have to buy, what kinds of equipment must be on our cars, what kinds of advertising we can view in what environment, tons of other things. So I don't see it as being too "Big Government" to mandate fast chargers. If they want to advance the market, that would be the easiest way to do it. Give the average person something to think about for their next car purchase. Give them a reason to want to. Most would still charge at home anyway, but at least they would know they could drive an EV the same way they do their gasoline car.

The key is how fast we can charge. I don't want you to have to be there 30 minutes either. Can we get to a 15, or better yet, 10 minute fast charge? I'm asking because I really don't know. From some things I've read, it might be possible. I think at 10 minutes you could change the world.

[smoothoperator]

What business are you at for only 120 seconds??? I can't even get through the Taco Bell drive-thru in less than 5 minutes!

As I understand it, the point of an electric car is not cheaper fueling, but cleaner emissions and not using oil. Even charging at home, it will take many years to recoup the additional cost of an electric car from the fuel cost savings. So if you find it too expensive to pay to charge, then charge at home, just like you say. But wouldn't it be nice to know you could go anywhere you want, whenever you want? Would you pay a little more to do so? It's also cheaper to drive to Vegas, but I'll still gladly pay to fly there.

The government has no problem telling us what kind of light bulbs we have to buy, what kinds of equipment must be on our cars, what kinds of advertising we can view in what environment, tons of other things. So I don't see it as being too "Big Government" to mandate fast chargers. If they want to advance the market, that would be the easiest way to do it. Give the average person something to think about for their next car purchase. Give them a reason to want to. Most would still charge at home anyway, but at least they would know they could drive an EV the same way they do their gasoline car.

The key is how fast we can charge. I don't want you to have to be there 30 minutes either. Can we get to a 15, or better yet, 10 minute fast charge? I'm asking because I really don't know. From some things I've read, it might be possible. I think at 10 minutes you could change the world.

The major point here is that the vast majority of cars that will be clogging up the EV charging stations will not be EV's....These Plug In hybrid manufacturers have really not contributed much in terms of infrastructure development. If a manufacturer is going to release a plug in hybrid they have to at least provide a certain amount of charging stations based on the amount of units sold...Its irresponsible for Toyota to sell 20k PiP's and contribute almost nothing towards public infrastructure; even though their vehicles will probably be monopolizing the stations. Why can't Toyota come out and say for every 1,000 PiP's we sell, we will donate or install or whatever 100 charging stations?

[JRP3]

I think the solution is to offer basic charging infrastructure to every parking space (or almost every parking space), for free, and have additional DC charging available for those who are willing to pay for that.

The problem is that free charging encourages more daytime charging, which could negatively impact the grid. We expect most people to charge over night at reduced rates, that won't happen if they get free charging during the day.

[JRP3]

As I understand it, the point of an electric car is not cheaper fueling, but cleaner emissions and not using oil.

One of the selling points of EV's, even at a higher purchase point, is the lower fueling costs. It's an important factor. If you occasionally need to charge away from home then you can expect to pay more for that option.

[mattjs33]

The major point here is that the vast majority of cars that will be clogging up the EV charging stations will not be EV's....These Plug In hybrid manufacturers have really not contributed much in terms of infrastructure development. If a manufacturer is going to release a plug in hybrid they have to at least provide a certain amount of charging stations based on the amount of units sold...Its irresponsible for Toyota to sell 20k PiP's and contribute almost nothing towards public infrastructure; even though their vehicles will probably be monopolizing the stations. Why can't Toyota come out and say for every 1,000 PiP's we sell, we will donate or install or whatever 100 charging stations?

I get the point, what I'm saying is that you would never see a PiP at a charging station if the owner of that car had to pay for the privilege. It's not worth it for the lousy 8 EV miles or whatever it is. In the absence of free charging there would be no justification for the plug-in variety over the conventional Prius; there barely is now.

Think about it in the examples that have been put forth thus far. With pay chargers, only owners of full EV's could justify plugging in, because they would NEED to. Everyone else would just let the ICE make up the difference. It might be an extreme stance, but I do believe it would work out that way.

[vfx]

The Volt and Fisker call themselves Extended Range electrics and chide pure EV owners since they see their gasoline engines making them better than Pure EVs since they are no longer limited by electric range. As far as I'm concerned they are asking for it both ways when they plug in a public site.

[JRP3]

mattjs,
Why wouldn't they plug in at home and get some cheap miles?