Battery pack costs, cell costs

TEG · May 16, 2009

There has been much speculation and difference of opinion on the actual cost of a Tesla battery pack. At a cell level, retail prices for commodity 18650 cells can come down to around $4 each, so that would be ~$27K (6831*$4) just for the cells not counting all the other stuff that goes into an ESS "Battery box" but we assume Tesla gets a much better than retail deal on a per cell basis.

Comments about battery pack and cell prices have been scattered all over the place on this forum, so I thought I should start a new topic just for this subject.

Along with all the variance between wholesale and resale price (both for the cells, and the completed battery box), there have been discussions about the differences in prices between Tesla's Lithium-Cobalt "commodity laptop" cells and other types of Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries that have different characteristics but are also being used in EVs.

Note, Tesla says they use premium well known brand cells (although the particular manufacturer is not stated), but some of the costs comparisons are being made against upstart Chinese brands.

With all that said, here were some "bargain basement" prices seen on the net recently:
EVDL Archive / Forum Interface - Electric Vehicle Discussion List

...The price available is $1.10 per Ah plus customs, container shipping, etc. Expect about 10% extra for those costs...

...The SE 180 Ah cells are interesting because they have the same physical dimensions as the Thundersky 160 Ah cells but are more energy dense at 102 wh/kg and 159.48wh/l ...

EVDL Archive / Forum Interface - Electric Vehicle Discussion List

Much more in this thread:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/news-articles-events/2700-electric-vehicle-bashing-wapo.html

stopcrazypp · May 16, 2009

TEG said:
At a cell level, retail prices for commodity 18650 cells can come down to around $4 each, so that would be ~$27K (6831*$4) just for the cells not counting all the other stuff that goes into an ESS "Battery box" but we assume Tesla gets a much better than retail deal on a per cell basis.

Straubel's slides suggest the prices are between $2-3 (presumably direct bulk prices).
http://www.ostp.gov/galleries/PCAST/PCAST%20Sep.%202008%20Straubel%20slides.pdf

The discussion here seems to confirm this, though it says $2 is for lower end 2000mah cells and that something like a 2600mah cell would be around $3. So $2.5-3/cell is probably a good estimate.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/pdf/Archive/Sci/sci.chem.electrochem.battery/2008-03/msg00015.pdf
The data seems to be from a presentation in 2008 International Battery Seminar in Florida with Hideo Takeshita presenting. Couldn't find a copy of the presentation though.

~$17-19k is what you get with $2.5-3/cell.
If they got it down to $2, it'll be ~$14k.

Less than $20k in cell cost would give them pretty good breathing room for a $30-36k (depending on which figure is more accurate) pack.

TEG · May 16, 2009

Great references, thanks!

Palpatine · May 17, 2009

TEG said:
With all that said, here were some "bargain basement" prices seen on the net recently:
EVDL Archive / Forum Interface - Electric Vehicle Discussion List

Quote:
...The price available is $1.10 per Ah plus customs, container shipping, etc. Expect about 10% extra for those costs...

Click to expand...

Quote:
...The SE 180 Ah cells are interesting because they have the same physical dimensions as the Thundersky 160 Ah cells but are more energy dense at 102 wh/kg and 159.48wh/l ...

Click to expand...

TEG, that is incredibly funny that you should quote those posts from EVDL.
That was my partner and he is quoting a bulk purchase of LiFePO4 batteries we organized with Thunder Sky and Sky Energy.

Here is our website with the prices listed.

www.evcomponents.com

We started a business recently (last month) to import these batteries in bulk by the container.
We sold about $250,000 in LiFePO4 batteries in about a month and basically took over the battery market within the custom EV conversion community.

We are already getting nasty emails from another website owner "Elite Power Solutions" that was selling the same Thunder Sky LiFePO4 batteries for $2.00 per Ah.
http://elitepowersolutions.com/products/index.php?cPath=16&osCsid=e4ae43d99c12fb3085e07c46cefa3122

We are selling at $1.10.

.

JRP3 · May 17, 2009

I'm also in on the buy from James and Dave :biggrin: Interesting that Elite power is emailing you guys complaining, since they are so over priced. I guess you guys didn't get the message among battery resellers to keep prices artificially high.

Palpatine · May 17, 2009

JRP3 said:
I'm also in on the buy from James and Dave :biggrin: Interesting that Elite power is emailing you guys complaining, since they are so over priced. I guess you guys didn't get the message among battery resellers to keep prices artificially high.

Not only that, the woman at Elite Power Solutions was trying to fix prices. If I posted her email, you would be shocked. She was suggesting that she would start a price war and the only people who win in that situation are customers. Then she started suggesting that we all set a minimum price to sell at, which was much higher than our $1.10 per Ah price.

BBHighway · May 17, 2009

You should forward that email to the attorney general. Price fixing is illegal.

Tdave · May 18, 2009

Right. Then you've eliminated your competition and you charge whatever you want! :biggrin:

TEG · May 18, 2009

Tesla Battery Pack Replacement Would be $36,000 Today...

vfx · May 18, 2009

The problem with Tesla is they can't be trusted in issues like this.

vfx · Aug 21, 2009

What about buying a spare?

Prius owners talk about it.

JRP3 · Aug 22, 2009

Well if you can find used packs from wrecked Roadsters.... :wink:
Still, in 10 years or so when you might actually need a new pack the new technology will probably be so much better and cheaper it wouldn't make sense to stick in an old pack, even if it were still viable.

vfx · Aug 22, 2009

Well if you can find used packs from wrecked Roadsters....

At least for now Tesla will not allow that. There has been at least one customer total wreck of a Roadster. Tesla is retaining ownership of the hulk.

dpeilow · Aug 22, 2009

Did they buy it back from the insurance company?

JRP3 · Aug 23, 2009

vfx said:
At least for now Tesla will not allow that. There has been at least one customer total wreck of a Roadster. Tesla is retaining ownership of the hulk.

So when you buy a Roadster you don't actually own it? How does that work?

vfx · Aug 23, 2009

dpeilow said:
Did they buy it back from the insurance company?

yup.

.

JRP3 · Aug 23, 2009

Anything preventing the car owner from buying it back from the insurance company? I've done that with other vehicles in the past, usually the owner has first choice.

Palpatine · Aug 23, 2009

Why would Tesla buy back the wrecked Roadster? To keep competitors from taking it apart for research?

Rumor has it that Porsche and a few others have already taken delivery of new Roadsters for research and disassembly.

bolosky · Aug 24, 2009

James said:
Why would Tesla buy back the wrecked Roadster? To keep competitors from taking it apart for research?

Rumor has it that Porsche and a few others have already taken delivery of new Roadsters for research and disassembly.

Maybe they just wanted to study how it did in a real-world crash.

Does anyone know the details of the accident?

BBHighway · Aug 24, 2009

Wasn't that the accident that happened in France? It was a Tesla rep who was driving, and a potential customer got injured?

Battery pack costs, cell costs

Teslafanatic

Well-Known Member

Teslafanatic

Banned

Hyperactive Member

Banned

Member

Member

Teslafanatic

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Hyperactive Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Hyperactive Member

Well-Known Member

Hyperactive Member

Banned

Member

Member

Similar threads