Car seems slower than new?

einTier · Feb 5, 2014

Anyone else notice this?

Granted, I have a former P85+ demo car that came to me with 10,000 miles. But if definitely felt "sharper" and quicker when I first got it. I thought that I had just gotten used to it over 2,000 miles, but I was given a loaner P85+ this morning with 2,000 miles on the clock and it definitely felt like I remember my car being when I first got it -- and I wasn't looking for it either, I just accelerated quickly to merge into traffic and thought, "wait a minute..."

The car has had probably 30 charges or so, I typically plug it in every night. Usually, this means I'm well above "half tank". I've only run it down below 50 miles twice and below 10 once. It's been supercharged twice.

Am I just imagining things? Should I have this checked out or is some degradation expected?

I always feel weird asking for service because I have no idea what's normal and what isn't. I know ICE cars inside and out, but this is a completely new experience.

deonb · Feb 5, 2014

Are you comparing both cars at the same state of charge?

A P85 at 90% charge will be speedier than one at 60% charge.

einTier · Feb 5, 2014

Roughly, yes. Though I'll admit my car was lower when I dropped it off than the one I picked up.

However, it appears they're replacing something (inverter? converter?) in the rear of the car due to passenger complaints of road noise in the right rear seat. Maybe that had something to do with my acceleration issue. I'll know sometime this evening.

Electric700 · Feb 5, 2014

It might be due to a need for battery balancing. The video in the first post here explains everything: Battery Care Maintenance

ckessel · Feb 5, 2014

einTier said:
Am I just imagining things? Should I have this checked out or is some degradation expected?

How much wear do your tires have? New tires grab better at that initial moment of acceleration and given the Tesla torque, that moment has more impact than in an ICE.

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Electric700 said:
It might be due to a need for battery balancing. The video in the first post here explains everything: Battery Care Maintenance

That seems unlikely. Even with unbalanced batteries, his top SOC should be more than sufficiently high for normal acceleration.

mnx · Feb 5, 2014

deonb said:
Are you comparing both cars at the same state of charge?

A P85 at 90% charge will be speedier than one at 60% charge.

Ummm you are not going to notice the difference in acceleration between 60 and 90% SOC unless you have instrumentation, and even then you'd have to compare something like 1/4 mile times...

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ckessel said:
How much wear do your tires have? New tires grab better at that initial moment of acceleration and given the Tesla torque, that moment has more impact than in an ICE.

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That seems unlikely. Even with unbalanced batteries, his top SOC should be more than sufficiently high for normal acceleration.

Thanks ckessel, you beat me to it... I agree, if you are feeling a difference it is like TC kicking in. Look for the flashing light on the dash while accelerating...

einTier · Feb 5, 2014

For the record, I instruct for several High Performance Driving Schools, so I'm quite familiar with the traction control and what that feels like. Ditto on tire wear, and my previous Porsche wore identical Pilot Sports several times in its life. There's a few performance tires I prefer (Direzzas, RE-11, BFG Rival), but none are available in the right size.

The tires were new when I took delivery of the car, so both this car and the loaner have approximately equal tire wear. Again, the drop off doesn't seem to be related to traction -- it's not the traction control kicking in that's limiting the acceleration, if anything, the TC is kicking in harder and more often on the demo I'm borrowing.

ckessel · Feb 5, 2014

If it's not tires, then I'd certainly ask the service center. Not sure how you'd validate if the performance has dropped. A dyno maybe?

einTier · Feb 5, 2014

Can't seem to edit posts. I don't want that to sound snarky, I just wanted to state that I am very familiar with car dynamics and control systems. I can understand why you guys would throw that out, most people who buy these cars aren't used to this kind of power or how cars behave at the limits of adhesion.

Zextraterrestrial · Feb 5, 2014

I thought my car was faster feeling than the demo I had for a bit. And now it feels much faster with 19"s instead of 21"s even though they are all seasons vs summer performance tires.
if you want to drop to 19" you can get much lighter wheels and 245/40R19 & 285/35R19 Re-11's

100thMonkey · Feb 5, 2014

lower ambient temps could also effect acceleration due to traction control kicking in more while the tires are cold and more slick. low ambient temps can also lead to lower energy draw from the battery. temperature management only does so much. to get a real apples to apples comparison, you'd need to get kind of scientific about it, test with the battery and tires at the same temperature, same SOC etc as a new car under the same parameters.

mnx · Feb 5, 2014

Ahhh, you never know who you're dealing with on here. Some owners are coming from older cars that didn't have TC etc. Sorry for making an assumption that you might have been one of them.

We might have to talk tires sometime, but that's for another thread or via PM. Cheers!

einTier said:
For the record, I instruct for several High Performance Driving Schools, so I'm quite familiar with the traction control and what that feels like. Ditto on tire wear, and my previous Porsche wore identical Pilot Sports several times in its life. There's a few performance tires I prefer (Direzzas, RE-11, BFG Rival), but none are available in the right size.

The tires were new when I took delivery of the car, so both this car and the loaner have approximately equal tire wear. Again, the drop off doesn't seem to be related to traction -- it's not the traction control kicking in that's limiting the acceleration, if anything, the TC is kicking in harder and more often on the demo I'm borrowing.

Gizmotoy · Feb 5, 2014

Over the few months I've had mine I've either become numb to the speed, or the 50% I keep it at now is noticeably slower than the 90% I kept it at when new. My Evo felt raw and fast the entire 6 years I drove it daily, so it has to be the quiet manner in which the Model S goes about its business (note: it feels very slow going back to it now).

djp · Feb 5, 2014

I notice a difference in zippiness between 60% and 90% SOC on my Roadster, and I agree low temperatures will also reduce the current available from the pack. Balancing will have close to zero impact compared to the effects of SOC and temperature.

It could be you're noticing the performance drop in cold weather, I'd wait until spring before worrying about it. Was it a warm day when you took the loaner out? There could also be some variation car to car.

brianman · Feb 5, 2014

einTier said:
Can't seem to edit posts. I don't want that to sound snarky, I just wanted to state that I am very familiar with car dynamics and control systems. I can understand why you guys would throw that out, most people who buy these cars aren't used to this kind of power or how cars behave at the limits of adhesion.

People are offering ideas, generally. It says nothing about your experience or skills. It's just things to consider looking into. If you've already got those bases covered, that's fine. Don't assume people offering ideas are implying you're inexperienced or foolish.

Denarius · Feb 5, 2014

Gizmotoy said:
Over the few months I've had mine I've either become numb to the speed, or the 50% I keep it at now is noticeably slower than the 90% I kept it at when new. My Evo felt raw and fast the entire 6 years I drove it daily, so it has to be the quiet manner in which the Model S goes about its business (note: it feels very slow going back to it now).

I kind of felt this way until I was in a rental car next week. My "normal" acceleration in P85+ was more than flooring my rental. You just don't feel like you are pushing it because of how quiet and smooth the acceleration is.

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Back to the OP, I'd compare once you get your car back, it sounds like you may have had an issue that would impact performance.

SwedishAdvocate · Feb 5, 2014

einTier said:
Can't seem to edit posts. /...

Editing is limited until your post count reaches a certain number. If you’re not already there by now you should be close (The specific number of posts required apparently changes over time and is kept a secret…)

AudubonB · Feb 5, 2014

You should fill up ONLY with high-quality electrons. 100-octane or better.
And never with "leaded" electrons.
Look for chargers that display "detergent" juice. Remember: a clean battery is a happy battery!
Stale electrons can ruin a battery pack. Never fill from charging stations that see few customers, or are in out-of-the-way locations. Know your source!

brianman · Feb 5, 2014

And Audubon wonders why some think Alaska residents are "different"....

qwk · Feb 5, 2014

einTier said:
Can't seem to edit posts. I don't want that to sound snarky, I just wanted to state that I am very familiar with car dynamics and control systems. I can understand why you guys would throw that out, most people who buy these cars aren't used to this kind of power or how cars behave at the limits of adhesion.

Do both cars have the same Firmware?

Car seems slower than new?

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