Franchising superchargers...?

joekitch · Jan 13, 2014

so, it seems the supercharger network is largely automated, and largely self-sufficient
and if you think about it, people at the chargers will be there for 30 minutes minimum, right? they're essentially stuck

this is a perfect opportunity for local businesses. a couple of businesses in a local strip mall can pitch some cash together to "buy" a supercharging station located within their parking lot
and anyone that needs to charge up there basically has nothing else to do for 30 minutes "why not check out those shops or get something to eat?"
not to mention it'll get some tesla fans or curious hipster types in the local community tittering.
its not guaranteed business for them, but its a pretty strong incentive...

this would also increase the speed of the network rollout since tesla wouldn't have to pay out of pocket for them all, ideally they wouldnt pay a cent for these franchised locations, only send out the construction crew and some certified techs to put it together.
i mean, think of how fast redbox spread, and most of the reason for that was businesses wanted people to come to THEM to get their redbox movies, and be tempted to buy something as well

this wont be quite as easy for the battery swap service though :3

jerry33 · Jan 13, 2014

It would also increase the number of non-working Superchargers and end up like Blink chargers where half of them don't work. I don't see Tesla going there. Also it's hard enough for Tesla to install chargers when it's free to the business. Adding $250,000 to the cost isn't going to get many takers.

ItsNotAboutTheMoney · Jan 13, 2014

Until Tesla is selling large numbers of cars, they are of limited value. Giving up spaces in a small town is one thing, but mall parking is another.

However, even if Gen 3 is selling like Gen 3 when the leases come up in 2017/2018, while companies will be more keen to get Superchargers, Tesla will still be a small proportion of the market and Tesla will still want Superchargers to be a carefully-managed network.

I don't see them being able to sell Supercharging, but they might be able to get better slots as the volume grows, both because the landowners will want the Supercharger and because increased public awareness about Teslas and other plug-ins would lead to more respect for the parking spots, including better enforcement.

techmaven · Jan 13, 2014

I believe the costs of true L3 - 100+ kW DC fast charging is way too high for 3rd parties to really get behind. We're talking $75-150k in up front costs. Plus, at that amount of electricity, there no way it can be for free - so that also means billing, which means probably connecting to a national billing network.

I believe the local strip mall is better served installing L2 - 60 or 80 amp J1772. You can install 8-12 J1772's at 80A for the cost of a single 45 kW fast DC charger, much less the cost of a 120 kW Supercharger which isn't available anyways.

sp4rk · Jan 13, 2014

jerry33 said:
It would also increase the number of non-working Superchargers and end up like Blink chargers where half of them don't work. I don't see Tesla going there. Also it's hard enough for Tesla to install chargers when it's free to the business. Adding $250,000 to the cost isn't going to get many takers.

Disagree about technical robustness ... the network would be managed by Tesla ... only the finances would be "distributed".
If you ever used 350Greens useless Level 3 and called their "technical" support and expect same from Tesla then I'd agree.
From the finance perspective ... I see shopping malls not wanting to be one upped in 5 years ... then it's game changer.
$150k over 5 years ($2,500mo) to get traffic away from a "competing" mall? Not today, no ...

Robert.Boston · Jan 13, 2014

techmaven said:
I believe the costs of true L3 - 100+ kW DC fast charging is way too high for 3rd parties to really get behind. We're talking $75-150k in up front costs. Plus, at that amount of electricity, there no way it can be for free - so that also means billing, which means probably connecting to a national billing network.

I believe the local strip mall is better served installing L2 - 60 or 80 amp J1772. You can install 8-12 J1772's at 80A for the cost of a single 45 kW fast DC charger, much less the cost of a 120 kW Supercharger which isn't available anyways.

L2 charging at a shopping mall is useless for an EV with real range (=Tesla). Even with a 40A circuit, which is rare in J1772s, you only get 30m/hr. I don't drive 100 miles to a mall, so this is a useless rate. At a hotel, L2 charging is perfect. At an airport, L1 charging is fine. If you want to attract passing customers, though, you'll need L3 charging.

techmaven · Jan 13, 2014

Robert.Boston said:
L2 charging at a shopping mall is useless for an EV with real range (=Tesla). Even with a 40A circuit, which is rare in J1772s, you only get 30m/hr. I don't drive 100 miles to a mall, so this is a useless rate. At a hotel, L2 charging is perfect. At an airport, L1 charging is fine. If you want to attract passing customers, though, you'll need L3 charging.

Again, looking at the costs, if a mall is looking to install metered EVSE's today, the costs for L3 are tremendous. 80 amp J1772 L2 charging makes so much more sense. At roughly 50-60 miles an hour for a Tesla Model S, if you stay for an hour or two shopping, that is likely enough for the return trip. It's not for trying to reproduce Superchargers, it's for customers that are a bit farther away (the closest ones won't need any charging).

Robert.Boston · Jan 15, 2014

techmaven said:
Again, looking at the costs, if a mall is looking to install metered EVSE's today, the costs for L3 are tremendous. 80 amp J1772 L2 charging makes so much more sense. At roughly 50-60 miles an hour for a Tesla Model S, if you stay for an hour or two shopping, that is likely enough for the return trip. It's not for trying to reproduce Superchargers, it's for customers that are a bit farther away (the closest ones won't need any charging).

I agree with your economics, but I doubt that it matters for Tesla owners. Sure, I'd probably use an L2 charger at the mall for free power, but realistically it wouldn't sway my decision of where to shop. Different story if I had a Volt or BMW i3.

We won't see many 80A J1772s in the wild. Only the Roadster and the very small proportion of Model Ss that have twin chargers can benefit from those top 40A. That's one reason that we see 30A J1772 almost exclusively, often at commercial 208V. A 6kW charge rate is pretty lame.

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Franchising superchargers...?

joekitch

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jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

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techmaven

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sp4rk

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Robert.Boston

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techmaven

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Robert.Boston

Model S VIN P01536

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