Gen III incompatible with battery swapping stations?

sms_327 · Dec 20, 2013

Since Gen III vehicles will be on a smaller chassis than the Model S and X, with (presumably) smaller battery packs, does that mean they will be incompatible with the planned battery swapping stations? Since the Model E is being positioned as a cheaper alternative to the Model S, is it possible that Tesla wouldn't retool the stations to be compatible with the batteries found in Gen III vehicles, citing the likelihood of its target audience opting for free supercharging over relatively expensive pack swaps?

Kevin Harney · Dec 20, 2013

Most of those robotic stations are capable of finding the bolts. Therefore no incompatibility.

Mookuh · Dec 20, 2013

They'd have to store the necessary batterypacks tho, of course. And with Gen 3 being a mass-market car, 50 packs per station won't cut it.
I wouldn't assume compatability unless specifically stated/promised.

Kevin Harney · Dec 20, 2013

Mookuh said:
They'd have to store the necessary batterypacks tho, of course. And with Gen 3 being a mass-market car, 50 packs per station won't cut it.
I wouldn't assume compatability unless specifically stated/promised.

If there are superchargers why would anyone want to swap batteries ?

ItsNotAboutTheMoney · Dec 20, 2013

Kevin Harney said:
If there are superchargers why would anyone want to swap batteries ?

Contention at chargers. If Gen 3 is a big success peak periods could get very busy and even if charging time for a 60kWh comes down to 25 minutes, that's less than 2.4 per hour per slot (they are paired).

It'll be a nice problem to have and I believe Tesla will find it easy to add slots, but I do think they'll continue to work hard to bring down charging times.

ecarfan · Dec 20, 2013

(Sorry, deleted my post, I mis-read the OP)

Grendal · Dec 20, 2013

Ultimately I don't see Tesla going with the swap stations to any larger extent. It was an important demonstration to show that it could be done but in practical terms it doesn't make a lot of sense. They haven't built any stations since they did the demonstration.

Doing the swap demonstration:

1. Shut up naysayers that go on about how a fill up is better than charging.
2. It got them a lot more ZEV credits per car.
3. Shows one more strength an EV has over an ICE.

To get back to the subject, it should work equally well in the Model E as it does in the Model S.

clmason · Dec 20, 2013

Grendal said:
Ultimately I don't see Tesla going with the swap stations to any larger extent. It was an important demonstration to show that it could be done but in practical terms it doesn't make a lot of sense. They haven't built any stations since they did the demonstration.

Doing the swap demonstration:

1. Shut up naysayers that go on about how a fill up is better than charging.
2. It got them a lot more ZEV credits per car.
3. Shows one more strength an EV has over an ICE.

To get back to the subject, it should work equally well in the Model E as it does in the Model S.

+1
There will be no roll out of swap stations. It was a demo, don't hold you breath.

sms_327 · Dec 20, 2013

Kevin Harney said:
Most of those robotic stations are capable of finding the bolts. Therefore no incompatibility.

I wasn't referring to bolt placement, but rather, the machine handling a different sized battery pack. I can't foresee the smaller Gen III vehicles having battery packs of the same length and width as Gen II.

- - - Updated - - -

Kevin Harney said:
If there are superchargers why would anyone want to swap batteries ?

Drive across the state of Pennsylvania and then we'll talk.

- - - Updated - - -

clmason said:
+1
There will be no roll out of swap stations. It was a demo, don't hold you breath.

I've heard rumors that it'll only be launched in the CARB states, but who knows. Until Tesla addresses it, only they know for sure.

aronth5 · Dec 20, 2013

Grendal said:
Ultimately I don't see Tesla going with the swap stations to any larger extent. It was an important demonstration to show that it could be done but in practical terms it doesn't make a lot of sense. They haven't built any stations since they did the demonstration.

Doing the swap demonstration:

1. Shut up naysayers that go on about how a fill up is better than charging.
2. It got them a lot more ZEV credits per car.
3. Shows one more strength an EV has over an ICE.

To get back to the subject, it should work equally well in the Model E as it does in the Model S.

Agree

Kevin Harney · Dec 23, 2013

sms_327 said:
I wasn't referring to bolt placement, but rather, the machine handling a different sized battery pack. I can't foresee the smaller Gen III vehicles having battery packs of the same length and width as Gen II.

- - - Updated - - -

Drive across the state of Pennsylvania and then we'll talk.

- - - Updated - - -

I've heard rumors that it'll only be launched in the CARB states, but who knows. Until Tesla addresses it, only they know for sure.

Size does not matter in this case

The robots can find the bolts where ever they are and in what ever configuration they are in...

Driven across PA many a times in my day. What makes PA any different than any other state ? Knowing the care of your battery far out weights the convenience of saving 20 minutes when crossing PA .... Not sure I get your point ?!?!

DuncanWatson · Dec 24, 2013

The battery swap will most likely work with the Model E to maximize the ZEV credits per vehicle. OTOH I agree that there will be very few battery swap stations.

stopcrazypp · Dec 24, 2013

DuncanWatson said:
The battery swap will most likely work with the Model E to maximize the ZEV credits per vehicle. OTOH I agree that there will be very few battery swap stations.

In 2018, there's no ZEV bonus for any EV above 100 miles, so the point would be moot. Plus CARB is very seriously considering removing battery swapping in the mean time, or at the very least condition it on real world stations existing.

Reykjavik · Dec 29, 2013

And Tesla doesn't really need ZEV credits. They are currently small enough that they don't need them at all, and with the model E they may need them, but since they are producing one hundred percent electric cars they are going to have far more than they need.

Selling credits to other manufacturers is a nice bonus, but hopefully one that will go away as other manufacturers start getting serious about EVs and plug in hybrids.

cwerdna · Dec 29, 2013

Reykjavik said:
And Tesla doesn't really need ZEV credits. They are currently small enough that they don't need them at all, and with the model E they may need them, but since they are producing one hundred percent electric cars they are going to have far more than they need.

Selling credits to other manufacturers is a nice bonus, but hopefully one that will go away as other manufacturers start getting serious about EVs and plug in hybrids.

AFAIK, Tesla doesn't need ZEV credits since they don't make ANY ICEVs nor do they have sales numbers to be considered a large or intermediate volume automaker (Zero Emission Vehicle Credits). You can compare Tesla's annual US sales numbers to the intermediate guys at 2012 - Dont Call It A Comeback Edition - Autoblog.

But yes, selling ZEV credits to other automakers is extra revenue and profit for them.

TonyWilliams · Dec 30, 2013

Reykjavik said:
And Tesla doesn't really need ZEV credits. They are currently small enough that they don't need them at all, and with the model E they may need them, but since they are producing one hundred percent electric cars they are going to have far more than they need.

Selling credits to other manufacturers is a nice bonus, but hopefully one that will go away as other manufacturers start getting serious about EVs and plug in hybrids.

Tesla will never need CARB credits, regardless of how big they get, if they never want to sell polluting cars. There's no limit to how many Zero Emission Vehicles they can make.

GSP · Dec 30, 2013

stopcrazypp said:
In 2018, there's no ZEV bonus for any EV above 100 miles, so the point would be moot. Plus CARB is very seriously considering removing battery swapping in the mean time, or at the very least condition it on real world stations existing.

You have got to be kidding! First they eliminate battery swap to give fuel cells an edge (not to have cleaner air), now this!

Why would CARB not continue to incentivize production of 200 and 300 mile ZEVs? If they want ZEVs to capture more market share this is important. Without a bigger market share ZEVs will not help air quality much.

GSP

Grendal · Dec 30, 2013

GSP said:
You have got to be kidding! First they eliminate battery swap to give fuel cells an edge (not to have cleaner air), now this!

Why would CARB not continue to incentivize production of 200 and 300 mile ZEVs? If they want ZEVs to capture more market share this is important. Without a bigger market share ZEVs will not help air quality much.

GSP

I believe you are under the incorrect impression that politicians do what is best for their constituents. :scared:

It's cynical, but Tesla probably didn't bribe them enough or at all.

Norse · Dec 30, 2013

I am willing to bet money against all of you guys saying that battery-swappers wont be everywhere. I am 100% certain they will.

Grendal · Dec 31, 2013

Norse said:
I am willing to bet money against all of you guys saying that battery-swappers wont be everywhere. I am 100% certain they will.

What's the advantage over Supercharging which will continue to improve? Other than time.

The disadvantages are that it costs more and after the swap you have a battery that isn't the one you bought.

Gen III incompatible with battery swapping stations?

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