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How long for the regen limit to disappear?

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dirkhh

dirkhh

Middle-aged Member
Jul 7, 2013
3,638
128
Portland, OR, USA
#1
Oregon usually has rather moderate climate. But last week I was on a road trip and stayed over night at a hotel in the mountains that had no charging opportunity at all. No covered parking. Nothing. So the car sat for about 30h in 28-38F weather. Stupidly I forgot to pre-heat the car before leaving, so I wasn't surprised that the orange regen limit line showed up. At only 10kW!
What really surprised me was how long it took for it to go away. It was 38-40F during the first 20 minutes of my drive and only after 20 minutes (and about 18 miles driven) did the regen limit finally disappear. It went higher and higher, but even 15 minutes into the drive I still had only about 25kW of regen! That seemed like a really long time for not really all that cold weather. Sure, the battery had to have been completely cooled down to about 38 through and through. But 20 minutes?

What do people in really cold climates experience. We had some harsh weather in the middle of this continent this past week... do people see the regen limit not go away at all if it's closer to 0F? And how much does pre-heating the car help?
 
#3
Denarius said:
If you have your car in range mode it takes longer according to the winter driving thread, I plan on testing that in the morning. Even preheating my car I'm still getting limited to 30kW (with range mode on).
Click to expand...

This is true. When in range mode the pack heater does not seem to turn on until much lower temperatures. In my case with range mode I went most of my 30 mile commute home with the regen limit present using range mode. With range mode off after about 15-20 miles the regen limit was gone. Temperature and driving conditions were very similar in each case.
 
#4
rlang59 said:
This is true. When in range mode the pack heater does not seem to turn on until much lower temperatures. In my case with range mode I went most of my 30 mile commute home with the regen limit present using range mode. With range mode off after about 15-20 miles the regen limit was gone. Temperature and driving conditions were very similar in each case.
Click to expand...

My experience exactly. Also, in Range Mode I had no problem keeping the cabin warm.
 
#5
rlang59 said:
This is true. When in range mode the pack heater does not seem to turn on until much lower temperatures. In my case with range mode I went most of my 30 mile commute home with the regen limit present using range mode. With range mode off after about 15-20 miles the regen limit was gone. Temperature and driving conditions were very similar in each case.
Click to expand...

Wow. My commute is only 20 miles... So I'll be missing regen for most if not all of it. I obviously don't range charge... In your experience, how much difference does pre-heating make?
In the morning the car is in the garage so I don't think the pack will be all that cold, but on the way back on a cold day after 8h in the parking lot it might be chilled through and through...
 
#6
dirkhh said:
Wow. My commute is only 20 miles... So I'll be missing regen for most if not all of it. I obviously don't range charge... In your experience, how much difference does pre-heating make?
In the morning the car is in the garage so I don't think the pack will be all that cold, but on the way back on a cold day after 8h in the parking lot it might be chilled through and through...
Click to expand...

By range mode I meant the range mode setting for the climate control. For preconditioning, it seemed like 20 minutes was enough to not have the regen limit. I'll be able to let you know tonight after my drive home since it is currently about 29F outside and my car will be sitting like that all day.
 
#7
It seems to take about 20 min to disappear. I've only had it when I've left the car at the airport for 2 days. So this time I decided to use the free 110v plug-in and left the car attached to shore power for the two days. It completed charging (didn't want more than about an 85% SOC sitting there) at the end of day one. I thought by being attached to shore power, the regen limit wouldn't show up, that the battery would be temp controlled from the wall. It wasn't. I even pre-heated the car once I landed (about 10 min before getting to the car).

My main question is: does the battery temp actually stay controlled by being attached to power (albeit 110v) or in my sample size of one, does is still cold soak unless actually charging?
 
#8
Others have suggested that the way to reliably preheat the pack when on shore power is not by turning on HVAC, but by starting to charge fifteen or twenty minutes before you want to leave. Range Mode may also affect the pack warming behavior.

I leave the car in Range Mode (not Range charging) all the time; I dislike the noisy high fan speeds you tend to get otherwise. So far this winter I've seen the regen limited to 30 kW, but nothing lower than that, even after cold soaking at 15 degrees F. for 3-1/2 hours.
 
#9
rlang59 said:
By range mode I meant the range mode setting for the climate control. For preconditioning, it seemed like 20 minutes was enough to not have the regen limit. I'll be able to let you know tonight after my drive home since it is currently about 29F outside and my car will be sitting like that all day.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok. Yes, I have my climate control on range mode, too. It was 32F this morning but starting from the garage I had NO regen limit at all. And by the time I drive home it's expected to be in the high 40s. So I'll try turning on the heat about 20 minutes before I leave and see how that works out. I'll be curious to hear how things work for you as you appear to be in a colder part of the country (you only provide "US" as location in your profile)

- - - Updated - - -

stevezzzz said:
Others have suggested that the way to reliably preheat the pack when on shore power is not by turning on HVAC, but by starting to charge fifteen or twenty minutes before you want to leave. Range Mode may also affect the pack warming behavior.

I leave the car in Range Mode (not Range charging) all the time; I dislike the noisy high fan speeds you tend to get otherwise. So far this winter I've seen the regen limited to 30 kW, but nothing lower than that, even after cold soaking at 15 degrees F. for 3-1/2 hours.
Click to expand...
I don't charge at work, so I don't have the option to charge before departing - and the garage at home never gets this cold.
As mentioned earlier, after 30h in 28-38F I had the regen limit all the way down to 10kW! It's interesting that 3 1/2 h in 15F wasn't enough to cool it way down. Maybe the mass of the battery pack helps. I wonder what 8h in those conditions would cause...
 
#10
dirkhh said:
Oh, ok. Yes, I have my climate control on range mode, too. It was 32F this morning but starting from the garage I had NO regen limit at all. And by the time I drive home it's expected to be in the high 40s. So I'll try turning on the heat about 20 minutes before I leave and see how that works out. I'll be curious to hear how things work for you as you appear to be in a colder part of the country (you only provide "US" as location in your profile)
Click to expand...

I'm in NJ, we got hit with a cold front yesterday so it is pretty cold today. I think the high is supposed to be around 37. Yesterday it was worse than this, about 27 according to the car, and I got the reget limit while having dinner at a restaurant last night.
 
#14
dirkhh said:
Yikes. All those Tesla statements on Facebook about how the Model S is the perfect winter car... They may be missing an asterisk or two...
Click to expand...

Yeah, as Doug_G says there are some seasonal variations. IMHO, the Model S does fine in the winter. It heats the cabin nicely. Hopefully keeps the windows frost-free with the new defroster vent. Traction is as good as any RWD car. The only caveat is that it seems to use a LOT more energy. I had a bit of "charge anxiety" this cold morning when my car for some reason didn't charge last night. Fortunately yesterday was Sunday and I didn't drive much so I was able to get in to work and top up a bit over lunch at a public station at the mall. By the time I'd arrived at work, my Wh/mi number was almost 50% higher than it is in the summer, and it's only going to get colder and snowier here in the coming months. I for one have absolutely no regrets over ordering the 85 kWh pack. I can only imagine what those poor Leaf and i-MiEV drivers feel like in this weather!
 
#15
dirkhh said:
Oh, ok. Yes, I have my climate control on range mode, too. It was 32F this morning but starting from the garage I had NO regen limit at all. And by the time I drive home it's expected to be in the high 40s. So I'll try turning on the heat about 20 minutes before I leave and see how that works out. I'll be curious to hear how things work for you as you appear to be in a colder part of the country (you only provide "US" as location in your profile)
Click to expand...

Temperature was 34F when I left work, I preheated the car for around 20 minutes. When I got in the car the "battery is heating" message popped up and went away . I got full regen back in about 10 minutes or so, with out preheating it was about 20 minutes and I had the battery heating message on for most of that.

My conclusion is that preheating seems to help in getting regen back faster. Also during the preheating I lost (or used for those who complain about the term "lost") about 2 miles of rated range during that 20 minute preheat.
 
#17
I realize this is an old thread but it seems the most appropriate. Overnight we went down to 20 degrees ( visiting daughter in Rochester, NY). When I took the car for a quick ride it came up with a NO REGEN warning. I had not preheated the car. I only drove a mile down the road and it was still in this state when I parked. When I came out 15 minutes later it had the regen bar at 10.
 
#18
jrreno said:
I realize this is an old thread but it seems the most appropriate. Overnight we went down to 20 degrees ( visiting daughter in Rochester, NY). When I took the car for a quick ride it came up with a NO REGEN warning. I had not preheated the car. I only drove a mile down the road and it was still in this state when I parked. When I came out 15 minutes later it had the regen bar at 10.
Click to expand...

The answer is "it depends". If the car was in range mode or not, how frequently there are stops and starts, hills, etc.
 
#19
FWIW, my re-gen limit never goes away, even when it's warm and the pack is fully up to temperature. I get about 45 kW max re-gen now. I made an appointment to have it checked out, but there was a horrible snowstorm on that day, and Service couldn't road test it. I have to make a follow up appointment next week.
 
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