Yearly service

jordanthompson · Nov 2, 2013

I just had my 2010 Serviced at home (I offered to bring it to the SC as they have their own equipment and expertise available, but they assured me it would be fine.) The guys took out the PEM and cleaned it out. They told me it would be $270 for the 12v battery (in addition to the $600 for the service and $100 for the Ranger visit) (I told them I would replace it myself) and said nothing about the fob batteries and wiper blade. Turns out the batteries are $6.00 and wiper blade are $76.14 (included in the $600.) I wonder if you replace the batteries and wiper blade yourself if you can save another $60?

When they started to drive the car off the ramps, there was a loud bang! and no movement. We all looked at each other with surprised faces. A few hours later, they were able to roll the car off the ramp in neutral. There was no smells at all. Tesla called me later that evening to tell me they were sending a flatbed :-( and a loaner S

. When the driver picked up the car, he noticed a strange smell around the battery (I could not discern one myself.)

Long story (and a week later) they returned the car

and took the loaner :-( Turns out there is a known flaw in the PEM that can cause arcing between the high voltage. This in turn took out some of the battery's cells(!) and one of the battery computers (!)

Needless to say, they replaced the PEM and battery pack. Apparently the new(er) refurbished packs have ultrasound instead of conventional welds, so they are "better." Both the PEM and the battery come with one year warranty's (a very nice surprise.) My old pack's CAC was 145, the new pack's CAC is 150.

doug · Nov 2, 2013

No photos?!?!

Sounds like you're lucky that happened during service.

jordanthompson · Nov 2, 2013

I had the PEM replaced last year (because the fans were upgraded) and I am told that it would have been covered under that.
One thing I forgot to mension... If you ever are unfortunate to have your Roadster flat-bedded, make sure the ramps are extended more than the usual amount. The first time they did my car, they scratched the front underside (enough to damage the paint and paint armor.) Scott was wonderfull and very carefull - he brought plastic exenders that looked like wouldn't work, but in the end were perfect.
I have attached pictures for the curious (no pic's after the big bang, though!) Inscriptions above the pics

This is the rear shock adjustment (I had them stiffen it up a little while they were there):

Motor:

Same motor (different angle):

Ranger vehicle and tools:

Guys working hard:

Who says engineers have no sense of humor?

This is the replacement battery:

Ramp extensions:

shrink · Nov 2, 2013

A $76 wiper blade? Did I read that correctly?

That's some story. Glad you got a replacement battery!

jordanthompson · Nov 2, 2013

shrink said:
A $76 wiper blade? Did I read that correctly?

and $6 watch batteries...

wiztecy · Nov 2, 2013

jordanthompson said:
My old pack's CAC was 145, the new pack's CAC is 150.

I'm sure you're CAC will still keep climbing, my pack was changed out over 3 months ago and my CAC is still climbing

I was lucky the second time around. The first pack never reached my original's pack CAC so they replaced it, I'm now at 159.50 CAC which is 0.50 away from the highest CAC a new pack can reach wich is 160.

Thanks for the pics. I noticed when they flatbedded my Roadster the tow guy didn't trust that center tow hook, he put straps around the front left and front right wishbone / lower control arms. A little scary but it made sense. His flatbed was too much on an angle just like your steep angle of approach and he put two 4x4 wood blocks for the Roadster to crawl up on. Seemed shady too, but he assured me he's flatbedded Roadsters for Menlo Park Tesla for a while and not to worry... well he cleared it perfectly and it loaded fine. Only thing was that I forgot to give him the key and he had to drive halfway back after I realized I still had it in my pocket!

- - - Updated - - -

jordanthompson said:
and $6 watch batteries...

View attachment 34568

Now I can see why the cost of a replacement pack is so high, its filled with $6 watch batteries :tongue:

Doug_G · Nov 2, 2013

I just had my annual service. Refused the replacement wiper - I have a Bosch 424A ICON wiper blade, which works a heck of a lot better than the stock blade.

strider · Nov 2, 2013

I just had my 2nd service done last week and they charged me $40.88 for the wiper and $6.00 for the batteries (they did both fobs for that) on top of the $600 service. For the wiper they listed Wiper Blade, Conventional replacement (1005240-00-A). I'm so out of the habit of going to auto parts stores since I'm not buying oil and filters regularly I just had them do it while it was in. We also don't get much "weather" around here so wipers aren't as critical as they are in other parts of the world.

They also replaced my front TPMS antenna (was getting errors) and did a service bulletin:
Concern: Bulletin: Roadster | MEM-09-011 | GSM Connection Troubleshooting
Pay Type: Warranty
Cause: GSM connection check
Correction: ACCESSORY INSTALLATION
GSM connection confirmed

Wonder if this is in prep for the promised Roadster support of the phone app?

djp · Nov 2, 2013

strider said:
Concern: Bulletin: Roadster | MEM-09-011 | GSM Connection Troubleshooting
Pay Type: Warranty
Cause: GSM connection check
Correction: ACCESSORY INSTALLATION
GSM connection confirmed

Wonder if this is in prep for the promised Roadster support of the phone app?

That's a standard GSM diagnostic test, nothing new or special. I've seen it on my annual service checklist as well.

hcsharp · Nov 2, 2013

The loud bang that took out your PEM and ESS - this is not the first time I've heard of this happening to a Roadster owner. I believe it is, in fact, a rare but known issue. Did they give you any more information? Has there been a service bulletin on it?

jordanthompson · Nov 3, 2013

hcsharp said:
The loud bang that took out your PEM and ESS - this is not the first time I've heard of this happening to a Roadster owner. I believe it is, in fact, a rare but known issue. Did they give you any more information? Has there been a service bulletin on it?

They told me it is a known issue. Here is the part of the bill that talks about the battery and PEM replacement:

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the 12v battery that Tesla was going to install is no longer available from Interstate batteries (at least I could not locate one.) Interstate recommended the FAITZ10S, which has better specs:

The new on is slightly smaller, but has better cranking power (in case you need to crank your motor :tongue: ). I just bent the bracket slightly and the battery was snug as a bug (in a rug.)

djp · Nov 3, 2013

jordanthompson said:
Also, the 12v battery that Tesla was going to install is no longer available from Interstate batteries (at least I could not locate one.) Interstate recommended the FAITZ10S, which has better specs

Thanks for the part number! I'm planning to replace mine with AGM the next time it dies. Should last a lot longer than the standard one from Tesla.

elecblue · Nov 3, 2013

Arcing between high voltage points - that is pretty scary! Sounds like damage was not too bad, all things considered. These kind of accidents can short batteries, blow controllers, you name it.

djp · Nov 3, 2013

elecblue said:
Sounds like damage was not too bad, all things considered.

Considering they replaced both the PEM and battery, which is over $50K as a repair job, it sounds pretty bad to me! :smile:

wiztecy · Nov 3, 2013

Is this arch issue only a 2.x issue, I never heard of the issue with a 1.5 Roadster which has a totally different PEM that appears to have better isolation. I also know another Roadster where this occurred on a 2.5. It blows the internal fuse of the ESS.

jordanthompson · Nov 3, 2013

What is the best way to handle the new battery? I am getting less driving miles than the previous battery and I realize I need to condition it to get the miles back to where they should be. I drove it this morning down to about 140 miles and am currently charging at 110V (I've noticed this can recover miles) but is this the right answer?
My son just wrecked his car (he's OK) but we are down a car for a while until we figure out what we are going to get for him. My point is that since this is a daily driver and now we are more dependent on it, I can't necessarily leave it for a week to charge/discharge.

dhrivnak · Nov 3, 2013

I hear the pack will balance above 80% charge and will charge faster with a range charge. If the pack is unbalanced then it can take a week to get the bricks back in line. So I would do a range charge when you can leave it at least overnight.

wiztecy · Nov 3, 2013

jordanthompson said:
What is the best way to handle the new battery? I am getting less driving miles than the previous battery and I realize I need to condition it to get the miles back to where they should be. I drove it this morning down to about 140 miles and am currently charging at 110V (I've noticed this can recover miles) but is this the right answer?
My son just wrecked his car (he's OK) but we are down a car for a while until we figure out what we are going to get for him. My point is that since this is a daily driver and now we are more dependent on it, I can't necessarily leave it for a week to charge/discharge.

Watch your CAC, no need to do a Range Mode. Just extra stress the pack does not need. Your new packs CAC is where your last pack's CAC was or better, is so that's good, and actually surprising it was that close after it was just dropped in.

First of all be patient.

In the first 2-3 weeks do full Standard mode charges and let it sit there when you're not driving, this will balance the pack out. After that, depending, you can draw 70% of the pack down on "1 key turn" and then charge. If you turn off the car, it won't work... this re-calibrates the pack's CAC again with the ideal miles.

You don't have to take my word, but I'm getting a CAC of 159.78 now, still growing and Range mode of 241 with std mode of 187. If I do another 1 key / 70% draw/charge back up fully in std. mode. I'll get higher ideal/range mode miles I'm sure.

Again my pack started out around 146 CAC and took over 3 months to reach where I'm at now, hence I stress patience. You can email Tesla but if you haven't given any time for the pack to balance they'll just say wait. Its always good to get an email thread going. I believe Tesla needs better communication to the customer in this area, I'm pretty technical so it worked for me but I can see someone getting really confused and upset.

CAC is the measure of the packs potential capacity, its typically tied to the pack's health.

Ideal miles is an interpretation and estimation of the CAC. I've seen my ideal miles drop but CAC climb. I'm more concerned about the CAC than ideal miles.

I also would stay off 110V charging. I don't know why people rely on that, its just asking for the pack to become unbalanced and doesn't buy you anything long term. Only time I use 110 is when I don't have any other option to charge and with that I'm still sketched and make sure I balance my pack after that off of a 240v/30amp charge.

Smop · Nov 3, 2013

wiztecy said:
I also would stay off 110V charging. I don't know why people rely on that, its just asking for the pack to become unbalanced and doesn't buy you anything long term. Only time I use 110 is when I don't have any other option to charge and with that I'm still sketched and make sure I balance my pack after that off of a 240v/30amp charge.

I am not so sure if this is true. I have a few Roadsters and have made it a point to charge each roadster exclusively (whenever possible) on a different power source (110v, 14-50 & HPC). There is a TomSax blog entry where he was unable to find a significant correlation between higher amperage and battery longevity but I have found there to be a difference. It could just be the luck of the draw but the car that I have been charging 90% of the time on 110v has the highest CAC & ideal miles (also the highest mileage out of the three ~22k+). The 14-50 and HPC Roadsters are pretty much the same CAC and ideal miles. I only charge the vehicles once they drop below 50% SOC. This usually works out to once every 3 days or so.

If you leave the car plugged in on 110 it will still balance itself out, I have had no problems with a full balance on 110v. Of course this all could be a fluke and the car I am using exclusively on 110 could have been a stronger pack from the factory.

jordanthompson · Nov 4, 2013

wiztecy said:
Watch your CAC, no need to do a Range Mode.

How do you do this? I thought this was only available through the service screens.

In the first 2-3 weeks do full Standard mode charges and let it sit there when you're not driving, this will balance the pack out.

Do you mean sit there without charging?

After that, depending, you can draw 70% of the pack down on "1 key turn" and then charge.

Do you mean leave the ignition key in the accessory position?

You don't have to take my word, but I'm getting a CAC of 159.78 now, still growing and Range mode of 241 with std mode of 187. If I do another 1 key / 70% draw/charge back up fully in std. mode. I'll get higher ideal/range mode miles I'm sure.

That is great!! I am going to try this (once I completely understand it

)

You can email Tesla but if you haven't given any time for the pack to balance they'll just say wait. Its always good to get an email thread going. I believe Tesla needs better communication to the customer in this area, I'm pretty technical so it worked for me but I can see someone getting really confused and upset.

I am reasonably technical myself and have a great rapport with the tech's. Byron (the Roadster master tech in Miami) suggested range-charging, then driving until "very low".

I also would stay off 110V charging. I don't know why people rely on that, its just asking for the pack to become unbalanced and doesn't buy you anything long term. Only time I use 110 is when I don't have any other option to charge and with that I'm still sketched and make sure I balance my pack after that off of a 240v/30amp charge.

I didn't realize that 110v was THAT bad. I know that the techs have said that charging on their charges (HPA) helps to balance the pack (I only have 110v and the UMC.)
Thanks for the suggestions!

Another thing to note was that the front tires did not wear evenly. The driver's front wore out the inside of the tire. As I understand it, the Roadster does not have any alignment?

Also, when I removed the panel that hides the battery, one of the studs that is bonded onto the body was already lose. I called to see what Tesla suggested to bond it back and they said epoxy or JB-Weld, as I assumed they would.

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