Optimized Supercharger Charging

yobigd20 · Oct 31, 2013

I actually thought of this a long time ago when I first heard about the superchargers and their short cords and problems charging in some of the places out there in CA (where some Tesla owners park at a supercharger and leave and prevent others from using it) - basically I had always wondered why there weren't multiple plug ports on the chargers where many cars can plug in and when the first car completes it starts the second car automatically, etc. I guess that idea really came to me when I first saw chargepoint chargers with multiple plugs on one unit back in march (albeit I know they charge both simultaneously), but I had thought that Tesla could have multiple plugs on a supercharger and do them in sequence which would solve the 'plug and walk away' problem thats blocking people that really need to use it.

Anywho, apparently someone else thought of this and already patented the idea: http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwgee...-Reduces-Equipment-and-Network-Costs-20131031

deonb · Oct 31, 2013

yobigd20 said:
I actually thought of this a long time ago when I first heard about the superchargers and their short cords and problems charging in some of the places out there in CA (where some Tesla owners park at a supercharger and leave and prevent others from using it) - basically I had always wondered why there weren't multiple plug ports on the chargers where many cars can plug in and when the first car completes it starts the second car automatically, etc.

There are. Each charger has 2 plug ports right now. When one car completes (or start to slow down charging due to battery limitations), the second car starts and ramps up with whatever capacity is available from that charger.

You don't really see the chargers in SuperCharger photos, only the ports, so it may seem like it's just a bunch of different chargers, but it's not. When you visit a SuperCharger you'll see the parking bays labeled e.g. '1A 1B 2A 2B 3A 3B' etc. where 'A' and 'B' are two plug ports on the same charger.

At some point it might also move from 2 per charger to 4 per charger.

yobigd20 · Oct 31, 2013

deonb said:
There are. Each charger has 2 plug ports right now. When one car completes (or start to slow down charging due to battery limitations), the second car starts and ramps up with whatever capacity is available from that charger.

You don't really see the chargers in SuperCharger photos, only the ports, so it may seem like it's just a bunch of different chargers, but it's not. When you visit a SuperCharger you'll see the parking bays labeled e.g. '1A 1B 2A 2B 3A 3B' etc. where 'A' and 'B' are two plug ports on the same charger.

At some point it might also move from 2 per charger to 4 per charger.

Hmmm the superchargers out here on the east only have 1 each.

yobigd20 · Oct 31, 2013

deonb said:
There are. Each charger has 2 plug ports right now. When one car completes (or start to slow down charging due to battery limitations), the second car starts and ramps up with whatever capacity is available from that charger.

You don't really see the chargers in SuperCharger photos, only the ports, so it may seem like it's just a bunch of different chargers, but it's not. When you visit a SuperCharger you'll see the parking bays labeled e.g. '1A 1B 2A 2B 3A 3B' etc. where 'A' and 'B' are two plug ports on the same charger.

At some point it might also move from 2 per charger to 4 per charger.

Also, it seems Tesla patented this idea ....
Patent application title: Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution
Read more: Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution - Patent application
Multiport Vehicle DC Charging System with Variable Power Distribution - Patent application

brianman · Oct 31, 2013

I think anybody that's every used a port replicator or a power strip considered this obvious. Weird that it's considered "novel".

Larry Chanin · Oct 31, 2013

yobigd20 said:
Hmmm the superchargers out here on the east only have 1 each.

In our region of the East we have two charging stalls per Supercharger. I was told that the charging is shared between the stalls, but not evenly. When a Model S arrives and the paired stall does not have a second occupant the first car gets the entire capacity of the Supercharger. When a second Model S arrives the capacity is shifted to the second stall in 30kW increments, I believe based on the state of charge of the vehicles.

At one of our ribbon-cutting ceremonies I spoke with a Tesla executive and he mentioned that Tesla was considering topologies in which more than two stalls could share the capacity of multiple Superchargers. In the interest of facilitating the roll-out they decided to start with the simple two stalls per Supercharger arrangement.

Larry

deonb · Oct 31, 2013

yobigd20 said:
Hmmm the superchargers out here on the east only have 1 each.

Are you sure? You can't generally see how the ports connect to the chargers.

NOTE: This is NOT a SuperCharger - it's a charge port:

THIS is the SuperCharger. Most of the time you can't see them like that - they're generally inside an enclosed structure somewhere close to the ports (e.g. like the wooden structure in the left of the top picture).

cinergi · Oct 31, 2013

deonb said:
THIS is the SuperCharger. Most of the time you can't see them like that - they're generally inside an enclosed structure somewhere close to the ports (e.g. like the wooden structure in the left of the top picture).

View attachment 34443

Actually I think that's general electrical equipment (transformers maybe). Here's an example of the SC's I've only ever seen: Supercharger Buelton

deonb · Oct 31, 2013

cinergi said:
Actually I think that's general electrical equipment (transformers maybe). Here's an example of the SC's I've only ever seen: Supercharger Buelton

Isn't that the same box just from behind?

I remember something like the person who took that picture had a discussion with the tech, who stated that they were rackmounted versions of the charger inside the car. The box on the left were left open for future expansion.

Either way, the charger is different than the thingy that you park next to

.

Larry Chanin · Oct 31, 2013

cinergi said:
Actually I think that's general electrical equipment (transformers maybe). Here's an example of the SC's I've only ever seen: Supercharger Buelton

Hi Ben,

Inside the Supercharger enclosures are the Superchargers that look like refrigerators and the switchgear.

Here's a photo inside the Port Saint Lucie enclosure. The Tesla folks let us take a photo from the entrance.

Port Saint Lucie Ribbon Supercharger enclosure.jpg

There are 4 Superchargers, white boxes, and 3 racks of switchgear, grey boxes

12 Chargers, identical to those in our cars, are racked in each of the white boxes.

Here's an excerpt from a Tesla construction drawing labeling the components.

Larry

bluetinc · Oct 31, 2013

yobigd20 said:
Hmmm the superchargers out here on the east only have 1 each.

Yobigd20,

All the East Coast Superchargers are also 2 charging heads per Supercharger. I think every charger I've been to, Milford, Darien, Delaware, Richmond all have small number/letters marked on them to show which sets are paired (1A 1B, 2A 2B).

Peter

rlang59 · Nov 1, 2013

bluetinc said:
Yobigd20,

All the East Coast Superchargers are also 2 charging heads per Supercharger. I think every charger I've been to, Milford, Darien, Delaware, Richmond all have small number/letters marked on them to show which sets are paired (1A 1B, 2A 2B).

Peter

Yes this is true, I've used Delaware and Darien (North and South), the bays are shared.

yobigd20 · Nov 1, 2013

bluetinc said:
Yobigd20,

All the East Coast Superchargers are also 2 charging heads per Supercharger. I think every charger I've been to, Milford, Darien, Delaware, Richmond all have small number/letters marked on them to show which sets are paired (1A 1B, 2A 2B).

Peter

Now that you mention, I do recall seeing those. I guess I was expecting "two handles per station" but dummy me didn't realize the split occurs before that point.

bluetinc · Nov 1, 2013

It's really helpful to know about when there is someone charging and you would like not to share

, Come to think of it, there was a long period that Delaware was not marked, but that has been corrected.

Peter

yobigd20 said:
Now that you mention, I do recall seeing those. I guess I was expecting "two handles per station" but dummy me didn't realize the split occurs before that point.

huntjo · Nov 2, 2013

This discussion is all moot. What you need to realize is that *we* are the superchargers. The trappings of the material world are ephemeral and irrelevant.

Dave EV · Nov 2, 2013

brianman said:
I think anybody that's every used a port replicator or a power strip considered this obvious. Weird that it's considered "novel".

No kidding. I have dreamed up similar solutions to address the same issue years ago, just never patented the idea. CarCharging's most recent patent seems to describe how the Blink dual-headed CHAdeMO stations work. Why didn't Ecotality patent the concept years ago? Never mind that the implementation sucks - Tesla's multi-port Superchargers are executed much better since two cars can actually charge at the same time while the Blink station only lets one car charge at a time regardless of how little power one car is using.

The USA patent system is broken - see the recent Rockstar vs Google lawsuit, for example.

Larry Chanin · Nov 2, 2013

huntjo said:
The trappings of the material world are ephemeral and irrelevant.

So I guess you'll be donating your Signature Model S to a worthy charity? :wink:

Larry

- - - Updated - - -

bluetinc said:
It's really helpful to know about when there is someone charging and you would like not to share , Come to think of it, there was a long period that Delaware was not marked, but that has been corrected.

Peter

Peter,

Yesterday, I was at the Fort Myers Superchargers and they are not marked. However, I was told by a Tesla representative that adjacent stalls are on different Superchargers. So I parked next to a Model S that was already charging. Since I received a decent charging rate of 251 mph, on version 4.5 of the firmware, that seemed to confirm that the advice was correct.

Below is a photo I took while charging at Port Orange that has labeling. You can see that the adjacent charging stalls both have an "A" meaning they are on different Superchargers.

Superchargers at Port Orange labeling.jpg

Larry

Cottonwood · Nov 2, 2013

Larry Chanin said:
Yesterday, I was at the Fort Myers Superchargers and they are not marked. However, I was told by a Tesla representative that adjacent stalls are on different Superchargers. So I parked next to a Model S that was already charging. Since I received a decent charging rate of 251 mph, on version 4.5 of the firmware, that seemed to confirm that the advice was correct.

Below is a photo I took while charging at Port Orange that has labeling. You can see that the adjacent charging stalls both have an "A" meaning they are on different Superchargers.

From what I have seen, they are installed with all the A's then all the B's. For example, a 4-charger, 8-stall setup would typically be labeled something like:

1A - 2A - 3A - 4A - 1B - 2B - 3B - 4B

This means that when the stalls are not labeled, count the charging stalls and divide by two and avoid that spacing to avoid sharing a charger. For example, 8 stalls divided by 2 is 4 stalls; avoid charging 4 stalls away (3 spaces between) another MS to avoid sharing.

When they are labeled, just avoid using the same number (A&B) as another MS if you can.

dennis · Nov 2, 2013

Cottonwood said:
From what I have seen, they are installed with all the A's then all the B's. For example, a 4-charger, 8-stall setup would typically be labeled something like:

1A - 2A - 3A - 4A - 1B - 2B - 3B - 4B

This means that when the stalls are not labeled, count the charging stalls and divide by two and avoid that spacing to avoid sharing a charger. For example, 8 stalls divided by 2 is 4 stalls; avoid charging 4 stalls away (3 spaces between) another MS to avoid sharing.

When they are labeled, just avoid using the same number (A&B) as another MS if you can.

I don't believe this is always true. At the Tejon ranch supercharger station I was getting very little juice parked next to another model S, and the full charge when I moved away. We were the only two cars there charging. So at least at that location I believe the ports were Siamesed.

Cottonwood · Nov 2, 2013

dennis said:
I don't believe this is always true. At the Tejon ranch supercharger station I was getting very little juice parked next to another model S, and the full charge when I moved away. We were the only two cars there charging. So at least at that location I believe the ports were Siamesed.

Tejon Ranch is one of the very early Superchargers, and may be an exception. I do believe that most of the Superchargers going in now follow some variation of the pattern that I listed.

Also, when I was the only car with 8 stalls in Silverthorne one night, I was only getting 30 kW when I should have been getting 90 kW. I moved over one space and the power went up to 90 kW. There is the occasional Supercharger gremlin out there, and I advise people to keep a check on it with the App.

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