Gen III - summary

DuncanWatson · Oct 23, 2013

Gen III aka Model E - summary

I thought it might be nice to have a post summarizing the explicit claims from Tesla on the GenIII project. I figured I could write what I know from reading here and update this as anyone informs me of changes, news and things I missed. Please give me a source so I can link that as well.

Tesla GenIII project.

US Price and Availability:Sedan will be first and target price is $35K USD, this is the price without government subsidies source Tesla Con Call 13-Aug-2013
Range 300km, closer to 320km (aka 200miles) with options to go higher than that. Source - Elon Musk talking in Munich -forum post - GenIII when will we see first prototype
Prototype ready - probably about a year, 12-18 months best guess 1st Quarter of 2015, souce - Elon Musk in Munich 21-Oct-2013
Comparison Vehicle BMW 3 series - source Elon Musk in Munich 21-Oct-2013
Size: "smaller than the model s, no as many features, but about half the price" - source Elon Musk in Munich 21-Oct-2013
SUV - a genIII platform SUV smaller than the Model X was confirmed 30-May-2013 by Tesla
Current Progress - GenIII is currently in sketch form, clay form expected in 2014, Model X takes priority and is in Clay (as of 24Oct2013)
Fit and Finish - Less luxury than the Model S, possibly a smaller screen and/or 1 screen instead of two - source Elon Musk in Munich 21-Oct-2013
Name:Unknown, Tesla was considering the name Model E - source: Entry-level Tesla will be called the Model E - report , James Chen of Tesla at Virginia Supercharger opening (3:10 in the video) - Tesla Richmond Super Charger - James Chen, Tesla Motors - YouTube - but has since abandoned the trademark for reasons unknown.
Style: Tesla Chief Designer Franz von Holzhausen quote from 12/12/2013 - “The model leads Tesla to a new level. The car will show what we are about: to build electric cars for the masses. It is not a small model S, we do not want a unit face like Audi.”
Supercharging: Elon Musk in multiple appearances has stressed that Supercharging will be free for all current and future Tesla vehicles. In this case free means no ongoing cost, not the lack of an upfront charge at purchase time.

After the Model 3 (Gen III) sedan we should see the SUV/CUV (investigative work by poster Model 3)

Model 3 said:
I finely found the time to find a record of Elon talking abut this Gen-III CUV/SUV...

http://insideevs.com/video-elon-mus...rger-expansion-cheaper-future-tesla-and-more/ at about 13 minute mark...

More here:
http://insideevs.com/teslas-future-product-lineup-to-include-just-announced-compact-suv/
and here:
http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/05/te...nvisions-selling-around-500k-units-long-term/

There are obviously other bits of information I am missing above. Please update this post with claims and source and I will update the top post to reflect.

Rumored or Unconfirmed but strongly suspected information:

Styling: The GenIII is reported to be heavily inspired by the Model S in appearance. I don't have a source for this and a search didn't reveal one quickly. If anyone can get me a source I will move this to confirmed - recently contradicted by Franz.
Size Speculation in the GenIII $35K thread about 20% size reduction vs Model S, some of %30 volume reduction - source unconfirmed

Some other speculative comments from regular followers:

WarpedOne said:
[note this has been edited by djw and is speculation]

Will it be aluminum? Definitely. The main reason: they already have and know the tech.

Will the battery be in the floor? Yes, because there is no reason not to put it there and because there is no better place to put it.

Will it have a frunk or will it be FWD? This one is not such a definite Yes! It might be FWD, it might be RWD. It might use the same front motor as in MX or get its own drive unit. Why do anything of this is known only to tesla. If they try to reduce the cost, they will reuse MX front motor and make it FWD. FWD does not cancel out frunk.
[djw] my take is yes to the frunk and no to FWD.

Will it seat 5? It will seat 5 and no more. [speculation]

Will it have falcon doors? No. It will be regular 'hatch', same as MS.

Will it be a hatchback or wagon? I'd bet on hatchback, wagon later. I doubt they would only do wagon.

Will it have tiny wheels? Tiny as in narrow? No. Will it have smaller wheels than MS? Yes. I'd bet 18" will be standard, maybe even 17". Price is the driving factor here.

Will it have a big screen, extending handles, camera's instead of mirrors, HUD, voice control, self driving....yata yata yata? It will have a big screen, if nothing else because it became a Tesla trademark. It may not be 17", maybe only 15"
Extending handles? I'd guess no. Cameras instead of mirrors? No. HUD? Possibly a part of tech package, base model no. Voice control? Probably as this is becoming standard feature of car radios. Self driving? No.
yata yata yata? I'm sure it will have at least one cool distinct feature. Maybe just a frunk, maybe wireless charging, maybe xyz. Whatever it is, it will be kinda a cheap but still cool and distinctive thing. I'd bet on frunk.

note: Elon has talked about ditching the big screen in the videos linked above.
djw

tdelta1000 · Oct 24, 2013

Please mention something about the sketches.

DuncanWatson · Oct 24, 2013

consider it done.

hileyms · Oct 24, 2013

Elon is in London UK today. This is a comment he made to one of our daily newspapers:-

"Gen3", would cost less than £35,000 and would probably arrive within three years.

In the UK we talk of prices including VAT (Sales Tax) of 20%. Therefore price before tax in US terms would be about $45000 including shipping etc. Seems a lot more than the $35,000

DuncanWatson · Oct 24, 2013

Prices in markets other than the US vary. Canada pays a higher cost for the Model S and so does Europe. I don't know the costs in the UK but they will be higher. I clarified the initial post on the US price.

hileyms · Oct 24, 2013

Just found this article from a Dutch car magazine

Entry-level Tesla will be called the Model E - report

In answer to tdelta1000 the article says - it will have styling that is heavily influenced by the Model S

AnOutsider · Oct 24, 2013

hileyms said:
Just found this article from a Dutch car magazine

Entry-level Tesla will be called the Model E - report

In answer to tdelta1000 the article says - it will have styling that is heavily influenced by the Model S

based on this article: Nieuwe Tesla 'Model E' goedkoper - Autovisie | Het laatste nieuws over auto's op Autovisie.nl van De Telegraaf [Tesla]

Can someone translate that (better than Google)? I'd like to know if Model E is 100% confirmed.

DuncanWatson · Oct 24, 2013

Unfortunately my Dutch is non-existant. When I read Dutch sites I suffer with google. I added the Model E information to an unconfirmed by likely section.

vfx · Oct 24, 2013

Elon, "Possibly one screen instead of two."

dsm363 · Oct 24, 2013

I hope they keep two screens. Even if they make the center screen 12" or something smaller it would still blow away everything else in its class.

DuncanWatson · Oct 24, 2013

dsm363 said:
I hope they keep two screens. Even if they make the center screen 12" or something smaller it would still blow away everything else in its class.

I agree with you. I prefer 2 screens as that is what I have on my Ford Focus Electric.

aronth5 · Oct 24, 2013

hileyms said:
Elon is in London UK today. This is a comment he made to one of our daily newspapers:-

"Gen3", would cost less than £35,000 and would probably arrive within three years.

In the UK we talk of prices including VAT (Sales Tax) of 20%. Therefore price before tax in US terms would be about $45000 including shipping etc. Seems a lot more than the $35,000

I think Tesla will live to regret tossing out $35k as the target price. Great to drum up interest but that is all. Very similar to the $50k that was mentioned over and over for the Model S that turned out ultimately to be inaccurate.
Recently, Elon has also mentioned Gen3 will cost half as much as the Model S. With the average price of the MS around $90k+ by the time Gen3 is out my guess is the average price will approach $50k.
If I get away paying less than that I will be surprised.

ryanjm · Oct 24, 2013

Wait, so with one screen is Elon suggesting a traditional instrument cluster and a big (maybe 15"?) touchscreen? He can't be suggesting the opposite (i.e. ditching the touchscreen dashboard in favor of traditional knobs and buttons), can he?

Citizen-T · Oct 24, 2013

In this video a Tesla VP calls the Gen III car "Model E". That might be the best source that we have yet for the Model E name.

gjunky · Oct 24, 2013

dsm363 said:
I hope they keep two screens. Even if they make the center screen 12" or something smaller it would still blow away everything else in its class.

Ditto: The two screens create the current user interface. I am not sure why they would go back to one and use a regular instrument cluster which really should save any money.

Discoducky · Oct 24, 2013

Citizen-T said:
In this video a Tesla VP calls the Gen III car "Model E". That might be the best source that we have yet for the Model E name.

Good catch! He really blurts it out and is a VP so that's that.

ryanjm · Oct 24, 2013

Discoducky said:
Good catch! He really blurts it out and is a VP so that's that.

Just watched the clip. He stated it very matter-of-factly. I'd call that as close to a confirmation as you can get.

BTW I called this (and advocated for it) a while ago.

DuncanWatson · Oct 25, 2013

Citizen-T said:
In this video a Tesla VP calls the Gen III car "Model E". That might be the best source that we have yet for the Model E name.

Thank you for this. I updated the Summary above. So the SXE progression is confirmed which is chuckle inducing. I will update the Title as well if possible to include Model E in it.

clmason · Oct 25, 2013

aronth5 said:
I think Tesla will live to regret tossing out $35k as the target price. Great to drum up interest but that is all. Very similar to the $50k that was mentioned over and over for the Model S that turned out ultimately to be inaccurate.
Recently, Elon has also mentioned Gen3 will cost half as much as the Model S. With the average price of the MS around $90k+ by the time Gen3 is out my guess is the average price will approach $50k.
If I get away paying less than that I will be surprised.

+1
I speculate Model E will start at $36,900 and will need an additional 20% in options to get it where most drivers find acceptable. After production begins pricing will increase 5% almost immediately.

A guess at Avg Sale $46K, and nearly $70K at the top end

Double edged sword, as with the model s:
Pre-order to lock in the low starting price and early delivery but risk build quality and have fewer options choices.

ElSupreme · Oct 25, 2013

aronth5 said:
I think Tesla will live to regret tossing out $35k as the target price. Great to drum up interest but that is all. Very similar to the $50k that was mentioned over and over for the Model S that turned out ultimately to be inaccurate.
Recently, Elon has also mentioned Gen3 will cost half as much as the Model S. With the average price of the MS around $90k+ by the time Gen3 is out my guess is the average price will approach $50k.
If I get away paying less than that I will be surprised.

Well the $50k after tax rebate WAS accurate. I was very much considering it. I ended up being able to afford an 85kWh. But when I put my reservation down, I wouldn't have been able to afford anything but the base. It turns out that people didn't want it, so it got axed, but it WAS accurate. I suspect the $35k Gen III will also be similar. There will be a de facto base price increase with a 'tech package' or equal, that >90% will opt for. And the median price for the Gen III will probably be around $50k, and the mean price probably closer to $55k.

Based on just the price, and a better public understanding of TCO for electric vehicles, I think Tesla will sell more low end Gen IIIs.

Not to mention they have the "2012 dollars" wiggle room. The real base price when it comes out is going to be more like $39,900.

ryanjm said:
Wait, so with one screen is Elon suggesting a traditional instrument cluster and a big (maybe 15"?) touchscreen? He can't be suggesting the opposite (i.e. ditching the touchscreen dashboard in favor of traditional knobs and buttons), can he?

I actually suspect (partly because Tesla is starting from scratch) that for the volume of vehicles that Tesla is producing (even when they start putting out Gen III) that touchscreens are probably cheaper overall than buttons. I don't ever expect a Tesla without the large central screen. Unless that concept is banned by law for some reason.

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