Model S： the best-seller in Norway in the 1st week of September

They are doing great, meanwhile the newspapers are starting to ask whether or not a luxury car like the TMS should have all the the same tax advantages as other smaller electrical vehicles. It seams the other car-suppliers has started their fight against Tesla. Hopefully they will lose.

From this thread:

Norse said:

…/If you want to come to Norway I suggest the west and the North of Norway. And do it in the summer! [My underline.]

[ Source: Vacationing in Norway with a Model S ]

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mountaineer said:

Great to see that you are from Norway, the heaven for EVs!

The logical conclusion is that Model S is likely to be the best seller in Norway, selling 10K cars annually. How do you think?

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If this prediction comes true, we need to have a hawk's attention to how the Model S handles the winter climate of Norway. Not just battery pack life and charging, but also salt water spray and corrosion. Especially West Norway is brutal against cars, and some foreign models have flat-out rusted in two seasons. Including the light rail carriages purchased by Oslo. I've been reassured that the Model S's aluminium design fares well in harsh climates and that the Roadster also fared very well. But when we have 10,000+ cars on the road, an issue here is something that could have a major impact on the share price.

The flipside is that if the MS handles Norway and California, Tesla knows more or less all there is to know about all-weather engineering and that's one less risk factor to consider.

marvinat0rz said:

If this prediction comes true, we need to have a hawk's attention to how the Model S handles the winter climate of Norway.

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Yes, add this to the list of Things that might og wrong for the Model S. The amount of salt we use are alot. And if the car aint prepped good enough there might be alot of damage With alot of cars.
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OT:
Mountaineer: Come in the summer no doubt, if you also come all the way from Dallas I would recommend going thru Copenhagen or Iceland and stay there a couple of days.

Well... To be honest the roadster owners in Norway were guinea pigs for Tesla so they could learn.

Yes but roadsters are carbon fiber, not aluminum... Minnesota is plenty telling itself, they use tons of salt also

PokerBroker said:

Minnesota is plenty telling itself, they use tons of salt also

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I'm either happy or worried to see that Norse shares my concern in this regard. It means that this is something which probably hasn't been adequately considered by other investors, although Tesla hopefully have thoroughly considered this issue during engineering.

West Norway is really some next-level stuff when it comes to rust. I guarantee that things are a lot worse than Minnesota and Canada. Other car manufacturers send their cars here to test for rustproofness, and if they survive for two or three winters, it is a very good sign of quality. It's not just that roads are actively salted for 5 months of the year, it's also that things are constantly wet due to massive amounts of rain. And the rain doesn't come straight down, it's mostly horizontal due to the wind. So it's not just salt water spray when you're driving, all parts of the car are more or less continuously drenched in salt water for months at a time. I'm exaggerating slightly here, but I'm just trying to underscore that Bergen is not Minnesota. You haven't seen bad weather before you've tried a fall and winter over here.

I know that aluminium is much more corrosion-resistant than steel, but there are things that happen with aluminium structures when exposed to highly ionic environments (salt). So this is definitely something worth to keep an eye on. It is possible to rust-proof cars, but if done in retrospect this could require sand-blowing first, which is expensive.

On the other hand, road speeds are lower here, so mechanical wear from use is lower than in the US.

The Cadillac Allante was built with a combination of aluminum body panels, (the hood, removable hard-top, and trunk-lid), as well as steel body parts.

Anyone in Norway own a Cadillac Allante? It would be interesting to see how the aluminum parts fared in comparison to the steel.

marvinat0rz said:

West Norway is really some next-level stuff when it comes to rust. I guarantee that things are a lot worse than Minnesota and Canada. Other car manufacturers send their cars here to test for rustproofness, and if they survive for two or three winters, it is a very good sign of quality. It's not just that roads are actively salted for 5 months of the year, it's also that things are constantly wet due to massive amounts of rain. And the rain doesn't come straight down, it's mostly horizontal due to the wind. So it's not just salt water spray when you're driving, all parts of the car are more or less continuously drenched in salt water for months at a time. I'm exaggerating slightly here, but I'm just trying to underscore that Bergen is not Minnesota. You haven't seen bad weather before you've tried a fall and winter over here.

I know that aluminium is much more corrosion-resistant than steel, but there are things that happen with aluminium structures when exposed to highly ionic environments (salt). So this is definitely something worth to keep an eye on. It is possible to rust-proof cars, but if done in retrospect this could require sand-blowing first, which is expensive.

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Aluminum is subject to bi-metallic rusting only.

Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The linked article is ambiguous as it is not clear what selling 134 cars during first week of September means. I've posted the following comment to the article - does anybody have more information on this?

What exactly selling 134 units during first week of September means?


If it means delivering cars to 134 reservation holders, it should be recognized that these reservations were potentially made over the time period which was longer than one week. In this case the Model S delivered 134 cars. I think it is misleading to say that Tesla sold 134 cars in one week in this case.


It would be much better and significant news if Tesla received 134 new reservations during the first week of September, as this would truly mean that they sold 134 cars during the first week of September.


Perhaps the author could clarify this

vgrinshpun said:

The linked article is ambiguous as it is not clear what selling 134 cars during first week of September means. I've posted the following comment to the article - does anybody have more information on this?

What exactly selling 134 units during first week of September means?


If it means delivering cars to 134 reservation holders, it should be recognized that these reservations were potentially made over the time period which was longer than one week. In this case the Model S delivered 134 cars. I think it is misleading to say that Tesla sold 134 cars in one week in this case.


It would be much better and significant news if Tesla received 134 new reservations during the first week of September, as this would truly mean that they sold 134 cars during the first week of September.


Perhaps the author could clarify this

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The number is registered cars in the first week of September.

callmesam said:

Aluminum is subject to bi-metallic rusting only.

Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Is this also true in the presence of salts? You'll see corrosion on aluminium window frames near the ocean, and I believe one of my chemistry teachers pointed out that this is due to influence from ions. I am not an expert on chemistry, though. All I'm saying is that this is a risk-factor which has been underreported.

mountaineer said:

The key indicator for forecasting sales volume is the price:


- P85: $ 101 000
- Panamera GTS: $ 313 000
- Golf GTI: $ 81 000
- BMW 750xi: $ 266 000

Here's the comparison for EVs and Plug-in EVs:

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Let me think, for the same price, should I get the Fiat 500e or the Model S 60?

Decisions, decisions...

marvinat0rz said:

...
West Norway is really some next-level stuff when it comes to rust. I guarantee that things are a lot worse than Minnesota and Canada.

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Based on what?
From what I could find, Norway uses much less road salt than the Minneapolis/St. Paul metropolitan area alone.

All of Norway in the 2004/2005 winter used 140,000 tons.
http://www.nei-til-salting.com/Stopp_salt/kontakt/Stop_Road_Salting.pdf
Metro area in MN average over 2001-2006 used 236,000 tons.
http://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/115332/1/pr503.pdf

Now, I haven't driven in Norway, but I am curious how you are measuring how hard each local is on cars if it isn't on quantity of salt used?

mountaineer said:

Yes, we need to track this.

On the other hand:
1. Many cars have Al bodies, e.g., Audi A8
2. The suppliers like Alcoa should also have done tons of R&D and should have good idea about how to deal with corrosion

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To help with this discussion, in the aerospace industry aluminum is anodized prior to priming and painting during the manufacturing process to make it HIGHLY resistant to corrosion. This process has been around for decades. The "Qualification Process" which leads to Certification of a product (particularly more stringent in aerospace for obvious safety reasons) for its Structural and Systems integrity requires heavy analysis and testing under realistic operating conditions with significant margins (Environmental Qualification is a category that is determined from a set of technical requirements for all structural and system components- which includes Cold weather, Corrosive Environment- Salt Spray, Humidity, Vibration, and a host of others ). So I'd expect the Model S's Aluminum body to have been engineered under a similar basis. All other parts exposed to salt corrosion (underbody-suspension, axle, etc) would be protected like any other production vehicle parts. The battery? I don't know but the underbody looks fairly well sealed.

I'm happy to see the Model S doing well in Norway, but it doesn't really seem like a fair competition comparing it to ICE vehicles with those types of tax penalties. It seems you would have to be crazy not to buy the Model S, all ICE vehicles costs are outrageous and every other EV is underwhelming. Do people actually buy BMW's and Audi's in Norway? Crazy.