Hydrogen vs. Battery

[JRP3]

Not to mention an affordable fuel cell is only one of the breakthroughs needed to make the concept viable.

[doug]

Honda opens solar hydrogen station in Japan's Saitama Prefecture - ABG

The station, which uses both juice from the grid and solar power, can produce 1.5 kilograms of hydrogen in 24 hours. That's enough to power an FCX Clarity for about 90 miles. In addition, Honda also added an electrical outlet to the FCX Clarity so that the car can function as a power source.

What a waste of energy.

[DuncanWatson]

Hydrogen is one of those things that I don't mind seeing research in but is nowhere close to ready. The cost of Fuel Cells is too high by a factor of 20 or so and the cost of producing hydrogen is too high. One day it may be something we use, but probably not for 50 years.

I don't mind seeing government research projects, but I don't like it when people try to pitch it as an alternative to BEVs since BEVs are ready, we just need to deploy.

[dpeilow]

If you think cost is the only issue, read this: efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf

[DuncanWatson]

If you think cost is the only issue, read this: efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf

I don't disagree with you. Free hydrogen is not cheaply liberated. It has significant costs that only major breakthroughs could alleviate.

[Doug_G]

I don't disagree with you. Free hydrogen is not cheaply liberated. It has significant costs that only major breakthroughs could alleviate.

Unfortunately you can't assume that these breakthroughs will ever happen, because they require fundamental developments in physics and/or chemistry. It's not simply engineering. And it's not just the production of hydrogen that has these sort of problems.

[DuncanWatson]

Unfortunately you can't assume that these breakthroughs will ever happen, because they require fundamental developments in physics and/or chemistry. It's not simply engineering. And it's not just the production of hydrogen that has these sort of problems.

Absolutely, which is why this is an area where pure research needs to happen. That is why I don't mind seeing pure research grants but do mind seeing DOT grants to auto corporations regarding hydrogen fuel cells.

[VolkerP]

If you think cost is the only issue, read this: efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf

Thanks for this link, a delightful read for me!
As the author puts it: "Does a hydrogen economy make sense? No, never." And he bases his conclusion on physical laws which cannot be overcome by engineering breakthroughs.

[stopcrazypp]

A hydrogen economy might make sense if you are a country that has a huge abundance of natural gas (the most efficient way to make hydrogen) or if you lots of extra renewable generation capacity (and no other viable form of energy storage besides from hydrogen nor do you have a matching load). Nuclear plants may also generate hydrogen relatively cheaply (although this hasn't really been done commercial in any big way).

But going forward, esp. in a renewable energy future (where the capacity in general matches the load and there are other cheaper forms of energy storage, like pumped storage), it doesn't really make sense overall.

[JRP3]

If you think cost is the only issue, read this: efcf.com/reports/E21.pdf

I don't disagree with you. Free hydrogen is not cheaply liberated. It has significant costs that only major breakthroughs could alleviate.

You are still focusing on cost.