Hydrogen vs. Battery

[jerry33]

As I recall, there were 62 survivors and 36 deaths. That's actually better odds then the typical commercial airplane accident. More attention to the passenger compartment and there wouldn't have been any casualties.

[Doug_G]

To be fair, propane is a higher fire/explosion risk than hydrogen (because hydrogen tanks are designed to a higher standard).

I'm very dubious. I'd be far more concerned about careless operators than equipment quality.

[Kevin Sharpe]

BBC News: "Hydrogen-fuelled taxis, introduced in London for the Olympic Games, are being transported on a 130-mile round trip to Swindon to refuel"

[dpeilow]

What an absolute farce.

I like how it says they are going to build another station near Heathrow. If it's too dangerous for the games, surely it's too dangerous to have near the country's main airport...

[TEG]

WTF?!:
On FCVs, Secretary Chu Changes His Mind Pike Research

[JRP3]

Well the author concludes that Chu's support and government programs will actually delay FCV roll out, so maybe it's all part of Chu's plan to stifle FCV's development Other than that, disappointing.

[Vger]

Read the second paragraph of this to see how dumb an idea this is. Where do get all this amazing hydrogen? Let's see, take a fossil fuel (natural gas), combine it with precious fresh water, and voila! get hydrogen, .. and oh by the way, ehem, CO2!! To recap: Frack some gas, combine it with essential human fuel (water), release a bunch of greenhouse gas, and you are all set!

[dpeilow]

These guys ITM Power have been gaining traction in the UK of late. Some of the claims in this presentation are, shall we say, hard to believe. Comments please...




The venue I recognise as City Hall, London, so they may have been presenting to the Mayor.

[Robert.Boston]

I didn't hear enough about where the underlying power is coming from to drive the electrolysis, and whether the fully-embedded cost of that power was being added. In countries, like Denmark, that have seriously overbuilt their wind farms, there is "free" power at various times that could usefully be transformed into hydrogen. But you can't project the total cost from such opportunistic power purchases. At scale, you're going to need a lot of power to create hydrogen -- about 4x more than would be needed if you charged BEVs -- and that will require additional renewable power sources, none of which are cheap today.

I do wonder, though, whether a plug-in FCV might not be the right combination for many vehicles. Take, say, a 40kWh Model S and add FCV capability to provide power when the battery charge is insufficient. You could do 95%+ of your driving on pure electric, while having the fallback of the stored hydrogen. Instead of supercharging the car (which stresses the battery, loads the power grid suboptimally, and isn't really all that fast, you just top up your hydrogen supply. It would probably be straightforward to build a 500-mile range vehicle with this combination, at a price well below the 85kWh MS.

[dsm363]

I didn't hear enough about where the underlying power is coming from to drive the electrolysis, and whether the fully-embedded cost of that power was being added. In countries, like Denmark, that have seriously overbuilt their wind farms, there is "free" power at various times that could usefully be transformed into hydrogen. But you can't project the total cost from such opportunistic power purchases. At scale, you're going to need a lot of power to create hydrogen -- about 4x more than would be needed if you charged BEVs -- and that will require additional renewable power sources, none of which are cheap today.

I do wonder, though, whether a plug-in FCV might not be the right combination for many vehicles. Take, say, a 40kWh Model S and add FCV capability to provide power when the battery charge is insufficient. You could do 95%+ of your driving on pure electric, while having the fallback of the stored hydrogen. Instead of supercharging the car (which stresses the battery, loads the power grid suboptimally, and isn't really all that fast, you just top up your hydrogen supply. It would probably be straightforward to build a 500-mile range vehicle with this combination, at a price well below the 85kWh MS.

I think that would work but isn't the cost of a hydrogen fueling station many multiples of a Supercharging station? It would be quicker to refuel though so likely more acceptable to more people.