Coda Automotive (formerly Miles Automotive Group)

[shark2k]

Received an e-mail today from Coda informing that the car can be reserved. Also says that the new and improved http://www.codaautomotive.com has launched. The site the car is $37,400 after tax savings.

-Shark2k

[TEG]

Better URL: http://www.codaautomotive.com/

[doug]

The site the car is $37,400 after tax savings.

Yeah, saw that on ABG yesterday morning.
2011 Coda electric sedan priced at $44,900
I think they're toast. Nissan with their Leaf pricing was really a game changer. I don't think these guys have much of a chance. I wish them the best of luck, though.

[PaulM]

They could have been successful had they came out earlier this year but against Nissan they have no chance. They may sell a few due to their longer range (hey GM was able to sell the Aztek and it wasn't cheap either) but not many people will take the risk when they have a choice from a major manufacturer.

[Cobos]

Looking at the battery I think Siry might have a point. He posted on his blog a few months back that many of the new EVs had very unrealistic range estimates. And that is a lot more important when you start with 100 miles than 230 miles as the Roadster does.
The Coda has a 33,8kWh battery while the LEAF only has 24kWH. Either the Leaf uses a lot less power or someone is being optimistic/pessimistic. I't s a bit like battery times on a laptop, everyone "knows" you realistically get around 50-75% of that time.

Cobos

[EVNow]

Looking at the battery I think Siry might have a point. He posted on his blog a few months back that many of the new EVs had very unrealistic range estimates. And that is a lot more important when you start with 100 miles than 230 miles as the Roadster does.
The Coda has a 33,8kWh battery while the LEAF only has 24kWH. Either the Leaf uses a lot less power or someone is being optimistic/pessimistic. I't s a bit like battery times on a laptop, everyone "knows" you realistically get around 50-75% of that time.

I've no idea why Siry said what he said - afterall Nissan uses manganese spinal, not consumer grade cobalt oxide. Besides they have some 15 years experience with Lithium automotive batteries - so they know what they are doing.

In anycase, 24kwh is the usable. The nominal capacity is probably around 30 kwh which gives it a 80% DOD.

[Cobos]

EVNow are you sure that the 24kWh is the usable not the total battery. Or let me ask this another way the 53kWh that Tesla says for the Roadster is that the usable or the total capacity.
I never said Nissan doesn't know how to make batteries. What I did say and which is Siry's point is that if YMMV should show that in reality getting 100 miles is impossible it will be bad for EV's. I've heard people use that same argument when comparing Think's and MiEV which supposedly have the same range. What I was trying to say in my post above was that Coda might take a worst case scenario into account when they say range while Nissan might use a better-case scenario. This of course might also account a bit for the price differential.
So unless the slightly larger range is crucial I also think the Coda is not priced right relative to the Leaf. Hence Coda might have a big problem on their hands.

Cobos

[eledille]

Hmm. 7.05 km/kWh sounds optimistic to me. My Think was specified to have a range of 80 km with its 11.4 kWh battery - that's 7.02 km/kWh. You can get 80 km out of it, but then you have to drive economically. The Leaf has better aerodynamics, but also a higher top speed. Time will tell.

Cobos, EVNow: manganese spinel li-ion batteries differ from cobalt oxide by being able to utilize the full capacity without degrading. They're lower nominal capacity on paper, but at least partially make up for it in practice.

[Iz]

Cobos, I posted something along the same lines as you several months ago. The Nissan, being more popular will attract greater attention. Given the limited range (and hence, lower price point), all eyes will be on it. It will be directed more at the masses than the niche markets early on. However, news of dead batteries, photos of Leafs in tow and families stuck on the road due to drained batteries will not be welcome news for EVs. This is where Coda may have an advantage and Model S will shine, particularly the 300 mile range option.

[EVNow]

EVNow are you sure that the 24kWh is the usable not the total battery. Or let me ask this another way the 53kWh that Tesla says for the Roadster is that the usable or the total capacity.

I can't speak with any authority about Tesla - but with Leaf it is the usable (as in that is what Nissan will use).

I never said Nissan doesn't know how to make batteries. What I did say and which is Siry's point is that if YMMV should show that in reality getting 100 miles is impossible it will be bad for EV's.

Siry & Musk and others have a "NIH" problem. They fail to realize that
- Flat is better for thermal management than cylindrical
- Mn spinal is much better than Cobalt oxide in terms of being able to take thermal abuse as well as having much better internal resistence

BTW, have you seen my chart of the range that Nissan published under various circumstances ? We will easily be able to hit 100 mile range if we don't use AC/Heater.