NC bill and our reaction

Why do you care? That'd be like me boycotting things from NJ because I don't like that you prohibit self serve gas.

The proposal in NC sucks, but it's an internal matter that affects NC residents, and we'll sort it out eventually. Instituting a boycott of everything North Carolina over one law that doesn't even affect you is just stupid. More to the point, you're talking about harming the livelihood of millions of people, many whom agree with you.

voidptr said:

Why do you care? That'd be like me boycotting things from NJ because I don't like that you prohibit self serve gas.

The proposal in NC sucks, but it's an internal matter that affects NC residents, and we'll sort it out eventually. Instituting a boycott of everything North Carolina over one law that doesn't even affect you is just stupid. More to the point, you're talking about harming the livelihood of millions of people, many whom agree with you.

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Whether or not you agree with the boycott, anyone who is a stockholder, a resident of California where thousands and potentially tens of thousands of jobs depend on the survival of the company, or just someone interested in preventing states from restraining trade among states through arbitrary legislative acts (the essence of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution) would naturally care.

The analogy about self-serve gas rules in certain states is inapposite. Tesla as a company that depends on interstate commerce should have the right to sell its cars in every state without such restraints, but if I don't want to travel to New Jersey because of its higher gas prices, as a consumer I don't have to.

I disagree that it doesn't affect Dan5. It has the possibility of affecting just about everyone in the US. If NC is successful at getting it passed and implemented then it can be used as a model for other states. I'm not sure boycotting NC is the most effective way or the best way, but this is a big deal if *you* (voidptr) care about your rights AND the rights of other Americans to purchase what they want, how they want and American companies to sell their products directly to consumers...also known as the free market...emphasis on 'free'.

How many N. Carolinians actually know about this bill, voidptr? Do you think more would be aware of it if an action as severe as boycotting NC happened? Would you like 'external' forces to help you with this 'internal' matter?

Frankly, the general feel of your post, voidptr, is one of NC can look after itself and doesn't need any help from anyone else. It's an 'internal' matter that we'll handle ourselves. That type of *we don't need your help* (until you do) is an attitude that should be erased countrywide and then worldwide.

Dan5 said:

With the current NC anti Tesla bill, i think we should start a site to boycott NC products ans services.

If we get enough people i think maybe the citizens of NC will take notice and alert their legislature of their Anti-american business that the NC legislature is passing.

I for one will not be taking any vacations, nor actively purchasing anything made from north carolina from now on.

Who else is with me?

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I never bought anything intentionally from NC anyway, and I'm not going to check where the Internet sites I buy stuff from are located! Nor would I ever have intentionally vacationed there, though I might drive through. So, y'know, nothing to boycott.

The bill is completely absurd and would have substantial bad effects even on ordinary car dealers. I do hope they manage to get rid of it.

Krugerrand said:

How many N. Carolinians actually know about this bill, voidptr? Do you think more would be aware of it if an action as severe as boycotting NC happened? Would you like 'external' forces to help you with this 'internal' matter?

Frankly, the general feel of your post, voidptr, is one of NC can look after itself and doesn't need any help from anyone else. It's an 'internal' matter that we'll handle ourselves. That type of *we don't need your help* (until you do) is an attitude that should be erased countrywide and then worldwide.

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No, what I'm saying is you don't win people to your side by going straight for the nuclear option. What about the many North Carolinians that support Tesla in this fight, and who have already made their case known to their representatives (and, will remember come next election day)? We're getting national press over this already, and I think slowly but surely some of the legislature is getting the message that approving this is going to result in a successful challenge in the courts under the commerce clause given recent precedents.

One way or another, this law isn't going to last long. There's more Teslas on the road here everyday and plenty of people in RTP who will want to get their hands on one, even more so once I-95 and I-40 become Supercharger routes.

There's ways to help in this fight other than going straight after the citizens of the state, many of whom are just as appalled at this action by our legislature as you are.

voidptr said:

No, what I'm saying is you don't win people to your side by going straight for the nuclear option.

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There's ways to help in this fight other than going straight after the citizens of the state, many of whom are just as appalled at this action by our legislature as you are.

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Fair enough. Maybe say it that way the first time instead of saying it's an 'internal' issue that affects NC and we'll sort it out eventually? :wink:

A boycott would anger NC citizens. The ones who support Tesla may become more vociferous the ones who were agnostic would become against the bill and the big change would be educating the ones who never even knew this went on.

Guys, this is not going to help us win this fight. It is only going to hurt the people of the state, and while many don't know this is going on, those that do seem to be overwhelming opposed to it.

What we really need is for the state representatives to be flooded with tweets and emails and Facebook messages in opposition of the bill. Those that are out of state can still participate. We need to show these people that the only support for this bill comes from the dealers themselves.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

Krugerrand said:

Fair enough. Maybe say it that way the first time instead of saying it's an 'internal' issue that affects NC and we'll sort it out eventually? :wink:

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Yeah, I could have phrased that better. The OP needs to consider his message better too though. Think of it this way... I'm well off enough to afford a Tesla, in a state that largely isn't, and where the state outside the major cities is deeply aligned with political interests that love to beat up on Tesla right now. Even I was viscerally offended by the suggestion to go straight after my income, even though I agree with his end goal.

You actually start promoting a boycott, and you're going to come off as a bunch of spoiled Californians, throwing a temper tantrum over a car most of the people you're hurting aren't going to ever be able to buy in the first place. You'll do way more damage than good.

I sent emails to all the senators in my districts, senators in my party. I received emails from senators in some districts saying they are keeping an open mind and so on and so forth. The bill was passed in Senate anyway and is pending to the House approval. NC dealers are controlled by a handful of large ownerships and backed by the Auto Dealer Association so the lobbying effort is hugh. Even if the House passes the bill, I don't think this is the end of it because it violates the constitution. There are manufacturers like Apple have their own stores in NC, so why penalize Tesla. I am sure the Tesla legal team is hard at work to fight this one. Trust me, NC Tesla owners and to-be owners do care about this bill.

What happened to intermediate steps like 'raise some money to take an ad out in major NC newspapers'? A boycott seems a little over-the-top and, well, about impossible to make happen. "Oh hey, there are about 127 people refusing to buy NC products."

Boycott = Fishing with Dynamite. You never know what you're gonna blow up. If you want to do something, a targeted action might get better results.

voidptr said:

You actually start promoting a boycott, and you're going to come off as a bunch of spoiled Californians, throwing a temper tantrum over a car most of the people you're hurting aren't going to ever be able to buy in the first place. You'll do way more damage than good.

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Careful about assumptions. I'm not a 'Californian' and likely neither is the OP. I didn't say I supported the OP's proposal, indeed, I specifically stated I didn't think it was necessarily the best or most effective method. And while many in NC may not be able to afford a Model S, they might be able to afford the Gen III, right?

Yeah, I could have phrased that better. The OP needs to consider his message better too though.

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I agree, the OP could have stated his message better, but that's not an excuse for you to fall for his bait and respond in kind. Typically what people say first is what they truly feel - and that goes for the OP and you and me.

Many of us here have a dog in this fight. Not the same dog, but one nonetheless. If you could provide us with any sort of insight about what you and your fellow residents are doing that we could help with, let us know because we're all being shafted by this bill.

Citizen-T said:

Guys, this is not going to help us win this fight. It is only going to hurt the people of the state, and while many don't know this is going on, those that do seem to be overwhelming opposed to it.

What we really need is for the state representatives to be flooded with tweets and emails and Facebook messages in opposition of the bill. Those that are out of state can still participate. We need to show these people that the only support for this bill comes from the dealers themselves.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

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This seems to be the best approach.

GSP

Probably the best way to address this is establish a free service in SC and VA that allows NC residents to buy Tesla's and then get them delivered to their houses at cost. The state will see lots of Model S show up and realize that they're losing out on the sales tax.

Dan5 said:

Yeah, the priblem with that is as per the NC law Tesla is not even allowed to email ir call their customers in NC. Kind of hard yo arrange a business deal with no communication.

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And that sounds like a restriction on Interstate commerce that would be overturned in the Supreme Court because NC has no grounds to prevent the sale. Similarly, Tesla can easily communicate with somebody using an email account that isn't hosted in NC and no matter what the law in NC says, NC has no right to block that communication. The only thing NC could do is prevent Tesla from opersting in the state, but that would just lead to more embarassing absurdity.

All of this is annoying, but increasing the amount of ridiculousness is adding fuel to the fire. Maybe NC Tesla owners should start arranging meet ups at little league games.

rolosrevenge said:

Probably the best way to address this is establish a free service in SC and VA that allows NC residents to buy Tesla's and then get them delivered to their houses at cost. The state will see lots of Model S show up and realize that they're losing out on the sales tax.

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NC collects the sales tax when you register the car at the DMV and get plates. Whether Tesla hands you the keys in NC or VA doesn't matter, NC's going to get their cut.