Dodge Circuit EV (Lotus Europa conversion)

doug · Sep 23, 2008

Continuing from here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/electric-cars/1665-new-chrysler-e-rev-post12981.html#post12981

Lets take a closer look at the Dodge EV:

Plastic cap where the center tail pipes would be.

doug · Sep 23, 2008

For comparison, here's the Europa interior:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.a...th_luxury_touring_pack_option_interior_1a.jpg

Dodge EV

Don't think the airbag is safe with that stuck-on plate. Pretty sure there's a Lotus badge under there.

Gear shifter replaced with push button selector.

Laurent · Sep 23, 2008

I like it. What's the word on pricing and availability ?

doug · Sep 23, 2008

The form factor of the batteries seem to be similar to what's being used in that Exige Wind Car.

Looks like the power electronics require water cooling. Unclear what kind of temperature management the batteries have. The snap-on ferric beads look kinda kludgy.

dpeilow · Sep 23, 2008

So, is this a one-off PR stunt or serious? I wonder if Lotus did supply a glider or if this is a true conversion. I guess Lotus are free to deal with who they like but it must be a bit close to home for Tesla. Interesting nonetheless.

doug · Sep 23, 2008

Chrysler Provides Details on New 'Electric Cars' - News and Analysis by PC Magazine

Dodge EV: This purely electric roadster is Detroit's answer to the Tesla Motors electric sports car. With an electric engine capable of generating the equivalent of 268 horsepower and 480 lb/feet of torque, the sportster boasts an estimated 0-60 time of less than 6.0 seconds, and a quarter-mile in less than 13 seconds. The top speed is about 120 MPH or beyond, with a range of between 160 to 200 miles on a single charge. According to Nardelli, recharging will take eight hours using U.S. standard 110-volt outlets, or about half that using a 220-volt connection. By comparison, Tesla's roadster does 0-60 mph in about 4 seconds, with top speeds of over 130 MPH before the upgraded powertrain was installed.

Chrysler unveils electric cars, stumps for loans | Reuters

The lightweight Dodge EV, being developed with Lotus Cars Ltd, is designed to jump from zero to 60 miles per hour (97 km per hour) in less than 5 seconds and run up to 200 miles on a single charge. The plug-in hybrid also is expected to undercut the Tesla electric sports car on price.

TEG · Sep 23, 2008

Laurent said:
I like it. What's the word on pricing and availability ?

None, other than some estimate that it will hit the market "in a few years" and the statement that it should "undercut Tesla".

Doug - thanks for whipping together this topic and finding the pictures. This is an interesting happening. I sure hope they follow through and build this since Roadster prices seem to keep going up every time I look.

Some spec questions I have already:

#1: Sometimes listed as under 6s, and other times as under 5s.
#2: Pack mentioned as 26kWh but claims of nearly 200 mile range. Could it be that much more efficient than the Roadster? (1/2 the pack capacity but 3/4 of the range?!)
#3: Recharge in 8 hours from 110v, and 4 hours from 220v. That doesn't make sense to me. Typical 220v connections are usually twice (or more) the amperage of a typical 110v connection (e.g.: 35amps vs 12amps), so typically 220v is more like 4x faster to recharge. I would think more like 3.5 hours from 220v, 20 hours from 110v.

TEG · Sep 23, 2008

dpeilow said:
So, is this a one-off PR stunt or serious?

Good question! I wish I knew the answer. Time will tell.

doug · Sep 23, 2008

Laurent said:
I like it. What's the word on pricing and availability ?

Good question. I think the word is that there is no word yet.

dpeilow said:
So, is this a one-off PR stunt or serious? I wonder if Lotus did supply a glider or if this is a true conversion. I guess Lotus are free to deal with who they like but it must be a bit close to home for Tesla. Interesting nonetheless.

Hard to know if they're serious or not. But I'm sure part of their calculation to use the Lotus body is to steal some of Tesla thunder and to generate headlines.

How does one define a conversion? Must the car have actually had an ICE in it at some point, or is it enough that the glider was developed for an ICE vehicle.

I'm curious if Tesla had a heads-up about this. It definitely adds another wrinkle for the PR department. People will ask how the Roadster is different from this "Dodge" EV. The Chrysler PR will try to equate the two. But those in the know realize that the Roadster was a heck of a lot more work. Bad enough that there are still those that think the Roadster is just a converted Elise. Additionally, there are those that will think this car looks better (read faster) than the Roadster. The front of the Europa is more busy, perhaps more aggressive than the Roadster without being insectoid like the Elise.
I've been looking at Roadsters for so long, the Europa looks like a fresher natural progression.

doug · Sep 23, 2008

Siry responds:
Chrysler charges into electric car race - Los Angeles Times

The third vehicle, a Dodge-branded coupe based on a platform designed by English carmaker Lotus, runs only on battery power. Tiny, flashy and lightweight, it accelerates to 60 miles per hour from a standstill in less than five seconds and can travel 150 to 200 miles on a charge.

Those specs make it similar to an electric car already on the market, the Tesla Roadster. That $109,000 car is also based on a Lotus platform, runs on battery power alone and breaks the five-second acceleration barrier.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," said Darryl Siry, head of sales, marketing and service at Tesla Motors. "Developing a two-seat sportscar and putting it on a test track is not the difficult part. Getting it to market is."

This illustrates how the press will call both cars "based on a Lotus platform."

TEG · Sep 23, 2008

Chrysler charges into electric car race - Los Angeles Times

...said that it would put hundreds of electric cars in test fleets next year...

Where do I sign up!?!

doug · Sep 23, 2008

In this vid, when they show the "engine" bay, you see a carbon fiber cover hiding the name of the motor manufacturer.

DaveD · Sep 23, 2008

Same Connector as Tesla?

Is it possible that they're using the same power connector (SAE J1772?) as Tesla?

graham · Sep 23, 2008

This is a good catch! More hope that public charging stations may support the plug the Roadster uses.

graham · Sep 23, 2008

Motor Trend weighs in with an interesting quotation:

Dodge EV - Quick Drive - Motor Trend

Despite weighing in about 300 lb more than a stock Europa, it is expected to turn 0 to 60 in less than 5 sec. How much less? Chrysler officials aren't saying, though my unnamed escort boasts that the goal is to beat the Tesla Roadster, which is, itself, promising 0-60 times closer to 4 sec. (And, if Chrysler delivers, the Dodge EV also will outperform the gasoline turbo version of the Europa.)

I had not heard the claim that they are trying to beat the Roadster before.

112_0809_01l+dodge_EV+rear_three_quarter_view.jpg

malcolm · Sep 24, 2008

I'm sceptical about the range of 150 to 200 miles from a 26 kWh battery. That will require some gentle hypermiling rather than the usual Dodge antics.

If you scaled down the Roadtser's battery to 26kWh while keeping all the carbon fibre and the same transmission, you'd get about 120 miles at EPA combined.

The Europa/Dodge is less "Tesla Killer", more "Tesla's Overweight Stalker".

Plus, announcing a Lotus glider conversion is so 2006. :wink:

DDB · Sep 24, 2008

malcolm said:
I'm sceptical about the range of 150 to 200 miles from a 26 kWh battery. That will require some gentle hypermiling rather than the usual Dodge antics.

If you scaled down the Roadtser's battery to 26kWh while keeping all the carbon fibre and the same transmission, you'd get about 120 miles at EPA combined.

The Europa/Dodge is less "Tesla Killer", more "Tesla's Overweight Stalker".

Plus, announcing a Lotus glider conversion is so 2006. :wink:

I suspect many will compare the price rather than weight and performance. This isn't a track car. I for one could care less about a half a second in the 0 to 60 time, but a $20,000 difference in price may persuade me to walk to Chrysler. Moreover, if I take a small hit in mileage, it sucks, but I'll live with it. We all know a few extra miles in range [at least at this day and time in Li-ion batteries] makes for a huge increase in price. It will be interesting to see what Chrysler can sell this puppy for, because as I see it, there isn't much difference than the Roadster with some HUGE benefits. It would be much easier for the masses to service it than a Tesla automobile...how many Chrysler service stations are there compared to Tesla? Price is key.

Cobos · Sep 24, 2008

After the numbers we get out of Martin it seems range might actually be a big case. Using the Roadster or the Dodge EV as the sports car they are, you can usually cut the EPA range numbers in half. Not that there's anything wrong with that, that definately happens with any Ferrari or Porsche as well, but the range for the Dodge EV might be so short then it starts to become a problem... Which of course might be a serious "problem" if the values of 26kWh battery and the range numbers given are "optimistic".

Cobos

WarpedOne · Sep 24, 2008

26kWh battery

This amount of energy simply cannot offer much of sporty range. It is basic phisics. 26kWh suffices for about 100miles of constant 80mph on level road.

Remember that 61-mile range estimation on Roadster's VDS?
This number would be around 30 in Dodge EV's case.

Car weight cannot get much lower, aerodynamics not much better and efficiency is already very high. Range will thus go up only when battery capacities rise. With 100kWh you'd get arond 100 miles of "hard" driving with a car of similar weight and aerodynamics. And around 500miles of "EPA highway cycle" driving

dpeilow · Sep 24, 2008

Furthermore:

With an electric engine capable of generating the equivalent of 268 horsepower and 480 lb/feet of torque, the sportster boasts an estimated 0-60 time of less than 6.0 seconds

That seems very conservative, as the numbers are actually very close to my understanding of DT 1.5's.

And yes, I was also thinking that 26kWh for 150-200 miles range is probably impossible.

This smells more like a Tesla spoiler than anything that has been properly worked out.

Dodge Circuit EV (Lotus Europa conversion)

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