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Minnesota Test Drives

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J

J in MN

S60 P12635
Jul 23, 2008
461
4
Minnesota
#1
Just received an invitation to test drive Model S on May 10 and 11 at the address of the planned service center. At 20 minutes this will be quite a nice test drive. I hope the car still has snow tires on. :wink: Too bad I will be in Los Angeles.

I wonder if this is to co-incide with the opening of the service center? There is now one lift installed.

Invite.jpg
 
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#8
I unexpectedly came across a car rental place in Beverly Hills with a Model S P85. Since I missed the test drive event in Minneapolis, and since 20 minutes is too short anyways, I decided to rent the car for a day to see what it is like to live with it.

A co-worker accompanied me to the pick-up. We then drove along Mulholland Dr. By the end of the drive, I had a perma-grin, and she (a BMW driver) was quite impressed.

Next we went to an industrial area to do some acceleration tests. I previously posted (Get-Amped-Tour Review) that the acceleration of the standard 85 left me unimpressed compared to the Volt. The P85, on the other hand, was delightful.

Volt acceleration:
Volt_accel.PNG


Standard 85 acceleration:
ModelS_accel.PNG


P85 acceleration:
ModelS_Perf_accel.PNG


So, anyone that still thinks there isn't much difference between the standard 85 and the P85, you have no idea!

However, my back soon started to bother me. I made numerous seating adjustments, and created several driver profiles to experiment with different height and seat bottom tilt combinations, but nothing was satisfactory. After a 90 minute drive from Woodland Hills to Baldwin Park, I needed to get out of the car. About the only thing that provided some kind of relief was to tilt the seat back more, and sit in a hunched forward position.

Comparing the seats of my rental Chevy Cruze (which I find very comfortable) against the Model S show the problem.
2012-Tesla-Model-S-front-seats.jpg
Cruze_seats.JPG


The Cruze seats have bolstering at the top of the seat back, below the head rest, which the Model S does not have.

I stopped at the Hawthorne Super Charger with 25 miles rated and 48 miles projected range left. It's easy to beat rated range, even with lots of acceleration testing. :biggrin:

The obelisk looked like this two weeks ago:
IMG_6430.JPG


Now it looks like this:
IMG_0761.JPG


Less space ship and more gravestone. Also less polarizing, I suppose. :rolleyes:

So, after spending 14 hours and 278 miles in the P85, my list of 88 concerns have been reduced to 34, with the top 3 being:
1. Cannot find a confortable seating position - insufficient bolstering at shoulder level.
2. Cannot find a place to rest right foot when using cruise control due to large size of pedals.
3. Seat belt anchor on B-pillar too high - belt rubs against neck.

My favourite feature, by far, is how smoothly it goes over pot holes and rough, unmaintained road surfaces.

I ordered a bare bones 60 for my wife, but I will keep the Volt until at least v2.0, or BlueStar.
 
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#10
I agree, the acceleration in the performance model is crazy strong.
When I test drove one the blood literally was rushing out of my head:scared:

I haven't had any issues with the seats myself. However, I have heard lots of differences in who finds what comfortable.
As a temporary solution there are lots of aftermarket solutions.

We are picking up our second Model S this week and will be saying good by to out beloved Volt.

I still don't see how you can compare the acceleration of the Volt to the standard Model S. It is certainly true that there isn't as much difference between the Volt and the MS as there is between the MS and the performance MS.
But it is still substantial IMO.
 
#12
Zythryn said:
I agree, the acceleration in the performance model is crazy strong.
When I test drove one the blood literally was rushing out of my head:scared:

...
We are picking up our second Model S this week and will be saying good by to out beloved Volt.

I still don't see how you can compare the acceleration of the Volt to the standard Model S. It is certainly true that there isn't as much difference between the Volt and the MS as there is between the MS and the performance MS.
But it is still substantial IMO.
Click to expand...

Well, the seconds are different, but the graph has the same curve overall, proving it's an electric drive. I think the point of interest is the peak G force. 0.45 on the 85 and 0.40 on the Volt, versus 0.70 on the p85. What are you using, a smartphone app? I should try it out on my 60.

Re: your wife getting a model S, she's not allowed to "sell" my wife on getting her own, ok? Every time my wife fills up with gas, the conversation starts with "do you know how much gas is today? $4.20 a gallon! I think I should drive the Tesla to work." I've already conceded that the *day* that Gen 3 is announced, we're putting down our deposit.
 
#13
Both the options and specs pages on teslamotors.com says that the textile seats are heated, and my wife doesn't care much for the slippery feeling of leather, hence she chose textile.

I've asked owners of spring suspension here on TMC, spoke to one at the Hawthorne SCS, and spoke to an associate at the Santa Monica store about the difference between air and spring suspension, and my impression was that there is just not enough difference to justify the additional cost and risk of failure.

Vexar, you get my point. The physiological perception of the car's acceleration (and hence its ability to induce an EV grin) is determined by the sustained peak acceleration prior to reaching maximum power, not by the 0 to 60 mph time. The 85 actually reached 0.47 g with 4 adult occupants. And yes, it is better than the Volt's 0.40 g, but just not by enough to justify the 85's price compared to Volt's price on perceived acceleration alone. In my opinion the P85's 0.70 g is enough to justify the price increment over the 85, and that is what I will get when the time comes.

I used "g-tac free" for the iPhone for the tests. It would be fun to see the result of the 60. By my calculation peak accleration should be a touch better than the 85, so I expect to see 0.48 to 0.50.

As for our wives ganging up on you, my argument has always been that the person with the longest commute should take the most efficient car. I don't know if that helps or hurts you. :)
 
#14
J in MN said:
Both the options and specs pages on teslamotors.com says that the textile seats are heated, and my wife doesn't care much for the slippery feeling of leather, hence she chose textile.
...
As for our wives ganging up on you, my argument has always been that the person with the longest commute should take the most efficient car. I don't know if that helps or hurts you. :)
Click to expand...

Okay, at the time I finalized my vehicle, that wasn't clear about the cloth seats. Thank you.

My wife commutes. I don't. You are not allowed to repeat that to my wife. Ever. I do think she should start driving it more, though. A couple days a week, and when she's doing errands on the weekend.

I'll look for the g-tac application and post that somehow. Does anyone know how to pull screenshots off the Model S screens?
 
#16
J in MN said:
Vexar, you get my point. The physiological perception of the car's acceleration (and hence its ability to induce an EV grin) is determined by the sustained peak acceleration prior to reaching maximum power, not by the 0 to 60 mph time. The 85 actually reached 0.47 g with 4 adult occupants. And yes, it is better than the Volt's 0.40 g, but just not by enough to justify the 85's price compared to Volt's price on perceived acceleration alone. In my opinion the P85's 0.70 g is enough to justify the price increment over the 85, and that is what I will get when the time comes.
Click to expand...

Your opinion and preferences are your own of course, but I think it's a big unfair to saddle the S with 4 occupants and compare that against the Volt with 1. Not really apples to apples. My 85 pulls 0.54g peak and 5.2s 0-60 using a similar app with just me in the car.
Why do you think the 60 will have higher peak acceleration, by the way?
 
#17
My P85's dashcam logs (24 days of data, but with some holes) report a maximum deceleration of exactly 2G [256 units] and maximum acceleration of 1.109G [142 units].

If I throw out the hi and lo, the maximum deceleration is 1.828G [234 units] and maximum acceleration of 1.063G [136 units].

I'll see if I can find some video for those portions to satisfy my curiosity. :)

Update: Throwing out two invalid data points, the real maximum acceleration in my data is 1.047G [134 units].

DateTime,X,Y,Z
2013/05/18 10:52:39.460,-80,-256,81 2G Decel (see video below) - autocross finish
2013/05/18 14:56:56.073,-21,-234,99
...
...
2013/05/18 11:23:39.105,2,115,120 2nd fastest Accel - autocross launch
...
2013/05/19 16:04:04.544,24,134,113 1G Accel (see video below) - lapping launch
2013/05/13 08:57:00.347,-51,136,36
2013/05/13 09:07:13.584,30,142,-9
Click to expand...

Found
Invalid (human interaction with dashcam)


Decel 2G

Accel 1G
 
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#18
J in MN said:
the P85's 0.70 g
Click to expand...
Did the vehicle have 19s on it? Or were there perhaps weather or surface impacts on the acceleration? I have logs for both 0.898G (autocross launch) and 01.063G (lapping launch) as noted in the post above this one. The former was with some wet ground, and the latter was relatively drive but tire skipping is audible in the video.

(0.9 or 1.0) vs. 0.7 is a pretty significant difference, IMO.

Just as another double-check, here's the BlackVue application's accelerometer chart for the start of the "Accel 1G" video:

DashcamAccel1G_BlackVueAccelerometerChart.png


Notice where the pink reaches and/or crosses the blue.
 
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#19
Stoneymonster said:
Your opinion and preferences are your own of course, but I think it's a big unfair to saddle the S with 4 occupants and compare that against the Volt with 1. Not really apples to apples. My 85 pulls 0.54g peak and 5.2s 0-60 using a similar app with just me in the car.
Why do you think the 60 will have higher peak acceleration, by the way?
Click to expand...

J in MN and I will know this afternoon. The car weighs less but has a smaller motor. It will be good to have a full set of data for the different models (sans Performance Plus, though). Will it pull higher accelerating force? Shrug.
 
#20
It wasn't my choice to have 4 people in the car - that's just how my GetAmped drive was done. The estimated mass of all the occupants was 290 kg, and the estimate for the back seat occupants was 120 kg. Assuming an empty mass of 2108 kg for the 85, the measured 0.47 g becomes 0.49 to 0.50 g with just the front occupants.

The reported empty mass of the 60 is 2025 kg, and the published max torque is 430 Nm compared to 440 Nm for the 85. This means max acceleration for the 60 should be about 1.733% better than the 85.

So today Vexar and I measured 0.55 g in his 60. That would be about 0.57 g without me in the car. This result is consistent with my expectation compared to Stoneymonster's 0.54 g in an 85 with single occupant. The two measurements were taken with different devices, so we have to expect some difference in the calibration.

0 to 100 km/h came in 5.7 s, and g-tac's chime announcing 100 km/h coincided with the speedometer reading 63 mph, so I have high confidence in the accuracy. 0 to 60 mph was therefore 5.4 to 5.5 s. Interestingly this is the published value for the 85.

The graph below shows the 60 in red, and the previously tested P85 in green. We did the test on a wet road at the tail end of a rain shower, so there was a little bit of traction control as can be seen by the little blip on the rising edge of the red curve.
IMG_0788 small.png


In conclusion, Tesla has obviously made some improvements to the motor torque since the GetAmped betas. Also, acceleration of the 60 is surprisingly good. I wonder if this could be related to Elon's "under your nose" announcement?
 
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