Solar happenings

[Norbert]

If the government wants to implement a policy, then one of two things must happen: either the government directly funds the subsidies (e.g. production tax credits for wind), or regulators allow utilities to charge tariffs that collect extra money from customers to pay those receiving the subsidies.

Short answer: common sense still applies, as the rate structure must also allow utilities to recover their *total* costs in so far as they are working cost-efficiently and in a good direction.

Longer answer:

In those cases where the utility has only additional cost, and no benefit, isn't what you say in my quote already what happens, unless it is balanced by something else? But as I said, the case where someone provides energy during the day and consumes during the night, should be a value to the power plant, and be reflected in what the power plant charges to the utility or otherwise indirectly adds value to the system. Furthermore, the "buy" prices could slightly differ from the "sell" prices, to cover transmission cost, except in so far as they include subsidies (which they might very well do).

The special case where someone might consume as much during the day as is consumed by the same customer *during the same* TOU bracket, I would expect that to be so rare as not to matter, but if it did rise to the scale where it matters, then of course the utility needs to be allowed to recover that cost either elsewhere or there. In general, it seems to me, that utilities here need to think on a larger scale, and accept that the rate structure intends to encourage on one side and discourage on another side.

As I understand it, the arguments you are making are mostly valid in themselves, and should be quantified and presented to those who decide on the rate structure, but not to individual customers (who do not have the means to defend their interest adequately, as their is no functioning market with competition, and as the external costs for non-renewables are not adequately represented otherwise).

[Norbert]

A Brighter Way to Make Solar Cells - Technology Review

The work is at an early stage—so far the researchers have only improved the efficiency of the resulting solar cells by half a percentage point. But based on lab tests, they think they can increase the efficiency by four percentage points, from about 16 percent efficient to 20 percent, which would be a big deal in the solar industry, which celebrates even half-a-percent increases.

[dpeilow]

A manufacturing process that uses a quarter of the energy and creates cells with higher efficiency? Sounds like Sanyo HIT cells at 23% that I can go and buy for my roof today... SANYO Develops HIT Solar Cells with World’s Highest Energy Conversion Efficiency of 23.0% | News Releases | SANYO Electric Co., Ltd. Global




BTW, why aren't they trying to drive down the cost of ~30% efficient multi-junction? Spectrolab :: The World's leading provider of compound semiconductor and lighting products

[Norbert]

A manufacturing process that uses a quarter of the energy and creates cells with higher efficiency? Sounds like Sanyo HIT cells at 23% that I can go and buy for my roof today... SANYO Develops HIT Solar Cells with World’s Highest Energy Conversion Efficiency of 23.0% | News Releases | SANYO Electric Co., Ltd. Global

They talk about using "about half the energy of a conventional furnace". Not sure where you got the "quarter" from. It seems mostly about an improvement in the manufacturing method, which however is claimed to also have positive effect on cell efficiency (not sure why they use specifically 16% as a comparison).

The link you provided is from 2009, and, as a far as I can tell, talks about improvements in the cell technology itself, "at the research level".

So it doesn't seem that these improvements compete with each other, so to speak. Perhaps they could even be combined, I don't know.

[dpeilow]

They talk about using "about half the energy of a conventional furnace". Not sure where you got the "quarter" from. It seems mostly about an improvement in the manufacturing method, which however is claimed to also have positive effect on cell efficiency (not sure why they use specifically 16% as a comparison).

Sanyo

Using a new specially developed production process, Sanyo PV modules require less materials and 75% less energy to manufacture than conventional pv modules.

The link you provided is from 2009, and, as a far as I can tell, talks about improvements in the cell technology itself, "at the research level".

I can go and buy, right now, Sanyo panels with 22% efficiency at the cell level or 19% efficiency at the module level. In fact I am...

I don't know.

Right.

[Norbert]

Using a new specially developed production process, Sanyo PV modules require less materials and 75% less energy to manufacture than conventional pv modules.

Sanyo apparently uses lower temperatures, rather than light. While they have already achieved a 75% energy reduction, the question is still whether manufacturing with light (as in the NREL method) would have an additional benefit on cell efficiency. Perhaps not even experts know the answer.

[Norbert]

And:
Running a quick comparison of online solar panel sellers, it seems that Sanyo's panels still have an above-average efficiency, but not necessarily an above-average price/Watt. Their method seems to be proprietary.

Other panels seem to be closer to 16% in cell efficiency. So even if the NREL light method wouldn't work on Sanyo's cells, it may allow other manufacturers to catch up in efficiency, and perhaps even achieve a better price/Watt.

[dpeilow]

Nowhere near average on price/W, but I don't think that was the point of the original article.

This is the best I know of - this is an incredible price: Upsolar Mono 190W UP-M190M at Swithenbanks Alternative Energy | Grid Tie Inverters | Solar Photovoltaic

Can anyone beat it?

[Norbert]

Nowhere near average on price/W, but I don't think that was the point of the original article.

This is the best I know of - this is an incredible price: Upsolar Mono 190W UP-M190M at Swithenbanks Alternative Energy | Grid Tie Inverters | Solar Photovoltaic

Can anyone beat it?

Assuming 1 British pound sterling = 1.5498 US dollars, the Trina Solar 230 on this page with $1.30/Watt seems almost the same, but including VAT for the swithenbanks price (which is higher than US sales tax), probably even lower. EDIT: at a minimum quantity of 25, however!

Buy Solar Panels - Kyocera, Mitsubishi, Sanyo, Sharp, REC Solar and More!

The lowest Sanyo panel further below is about $1.80/Watt, which is pretty average on *that* site. What is your price?

[drees]

Assuming 1 British pound sterling = 1.5498 US dollars, the Trina Solar 230 on this page with $1.30/Watt seems almost the same, but including VAT for the swithenbanks price (which is higher than US sales tax), probably even lower.

Buy Solar Panels - Kyocera, Mitsubishi, Sanyo, Sharp, REC Solar and More!

The lowest Sanyo panel further below is about $1.80/Watt, which is pretty average on *that* site. What is your price?

SunElectronics probably has the lowest retail pricing around - especially if you buy at least a pallet's worth.

They seem to be constantly overwhelmed with demand and you have to watch out for exactly what you're getting as they sell a lot of B-grade and laminate (frameless) panels.

Sanyo HITs tend to be a good amount more expensive than other panels - but if you have limited roof space and want to maximize production your only other option are SunPower panels which are also around 20% efficient.