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Thread: NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

  1. #31
    Member anticitizen13.7's Avatar
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    I also think the article was fair.

    People who don't follow EVs as closely as most of us here do won't know about the present limitations, like range reduction in cold weather. Far from being a disaster, I think this article is valuable feedback on what Tesla needs to do in the next few years to create mass-market demand: better cold-weather battery performance, lower "standby/parked/vampire" power consumption, and closer Supercharger placement.

    Even after reading this "worst case" scenario, I would still purchase the Model S if I could afford it.

  2. #32
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    I don't think Tesla should tell a reporter anything that Tesla doesn't tell owners. By that, I mean that Tesla should tell owners about what happens in cold weather. You can't rely on every owner reading a forum or doing research to find that out.
    Model S - R140 - 5YJSA1DN4CFP01275 - 85kWh, Dolphin Gray, Black Leather, Piano, Tech, Audio, Suspension, 19", Pano, Twin, HPWC.

  3. #33
    Senior Member dpeilow's Avatar
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    Moderator note: Two threads on this topic merged.

  4. #34
    Member Cattledog's Avatar
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    My reply:

    John - I assume you did the research, or perhaps someone at Tesla told you, that when you go for an extended trip you do a max charge - that would have given you 265+ miles of rated range. When you go on a road trip in your gas car do you put 12 gallons in a 14 gallon tank?

    If I go somewhere in my gas car, spend $8 to get 2 gallons and 60 miles of range, but needed 3 gallons to go 90 miles and get there, and run out of gas, shame on me. Plug in overnight, always. It's EASY.

    Here's the equivalent - you get gas when you need to. You plug in every night when you get to your destination. There are more outlets in America than gas pumps - probably at least 1 million times more. Every outlet in America is a refilling station. Come on!

    Why didn't you point out the basics that you failed on? If you ran out of gas would you blame Ford for not telling you the car's MPG, or Exxon for not having a station when you needed it?

    Driving an electric car is NOT less convenient, it just asks you to think differently. Takes effort, just like a gas car requires effort. If you start simple-mindedly with the gas paradigm as the baseline, you have made a basic mistake. Would get on a bike and write a negative article because you couldn't make it go 65 MPH? Please make the effort next time and acknowledge when you don't.
    Last edited by Cattledog; 2013-02-08 at 05:48 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert.Boston View Post
    Unfortunate experience, and about as gently told as could reasonably be expected. Yes, the author should have Range charged in Dover; I would never have started a 199 mile trip in the winter, on I-95, with 241 rated miles. But that isn't the whole issue: Tesla really needs to add a Supercharger near Woodbridge Township/Metuchen NJ to bridge the 199 miles between the Dover and Milford Superchargers. It is a bit depressing the Tesla has added no Supercharging stations since December; not good progress towards its ambitious goals for coast-to-coast, north-to-south charging.

    If I was Tesla I'd add one in Riverside, NJ or New Brunswick nj.

    Riverside is about 50 miles, New Brunswick is about 110 miles. Metuchen or north jersey may be a little too far. Make in central jersey. Burlington/mercer/middlesex counties would be great. That's dead center in the state.

  6. #36
    Senior Member dpeilow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugerrand View Post
    That's out of context. It was 72% of a partial charge - as in a 30% charge. If he'd had 180 miles left, the 65 miles lost to cold weather becomes only 36% and so on.
    A 65 mile loss for just being parked is unacceptable. I'm not going to be an apologist and I think your 'plan ahead or drive an ICE' argument is totally wide of the mark. It's taken many owners here by surprise and I've not seen anything this bad with other EVs (or EREVs for that matter) just for being unplugged overnight in the cold.

    The guy thought he'd charged by more than enough for supercharger > hotel > back to supercharger. Then the technology let him down. I'd have done the same.

    If you are willing to accept that then you are condeming EVs to a niche.

    Tesla has an issue here that it needs to sort fast.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by aviators99 View Post
    Sort of an oxymoron, no?
    Indeed!

    The pitfalls of writing a post quickly whilst being swarmed by hungry kids clamouring for supper...

    I did the most best I could, really!

    I can always use the 'english is my second language' angle if backed into a corner

  8. #38
    Dr. EVS rolosrevenge's Avatar
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    It'd be curious to know what caused the 65 mile loss. Was it pack heating, or did the pack actually cool down too much. Didn't the Roadster owners manual have something in it about not plugging in when at such temperatures being something extra bad? I think it's reasonable in very hot or very cold for the pack to try and maintain temperature because that maximizes its life. I'm also curious why he didn't complain about the lack of charging options where he ate or stayed the night. In Canada and parts of the US they have to have block heaters in their cars and the businesses where you park will have outlets to plug in or your ICE will get too cold and not start. It seems to me that he got stuck in a similar situation. Ask someone in Calgary what happens if you park your car overnight outside without plugging in in the winter. Answer, you're stuck. If there'd been a J1772 (or even a wall outlet) at where he stayed, this would have been a much different story.

  9. #39
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    A few thoughts as I think about this article. For mass market adoption, you have to appeal to the lowest denominator. I doubt the majority is going to easily accept a change if it is considered making something that is currently easy/accepted, more complicated. I think no matter what, battery range and charge time are the two issues that will ultimately win or lose the battle. Convenience sells. The fact the S is great looking, handles well and works pretty much as advertised is the other side of the story and got us this far. There are going to be negative reviews, because there are certain limitations.

    Slightly off topic but still relevant, how many people who own a model s or have one incoming have another car (ice)? And does having another car say something about the weaknesses of the model s at the moment? How many people who do have another car besides the S would have picked the S if they were allowed only one car. I know there are people whose only car is the S. The point I'm trying to make is about perception and limitations.
    Last edited by Quibbs; 2013-02-08 at 06:32 PM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Krugerrand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticitizen13.7 View Post
    People who don't follow EVs as closely as most of us here do won't know about the present limitations, like range reduction in cold weather.
    That's a given. But doesn't everybody do due diligence beforehand? We're adults, not 5 year olds. If you've never operated a chainsaw before, do you not read the manual first? Get some pointers about how to prevent sawing a limb off? If you're going to drive a new fandangled electric vehicle, in the middle of the winter, on a long range trip, I'm all over the user's manual, and then I'm charging that puppy to 100% every chance I get and I'm plugging it in at night. But then I've never run out of gas either.

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