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Thread: NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

  1. #1221
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    I don't know what kind of proceedings you or your company participated in, but defamation or trade libel are difficult claims to prove here in the US, at least prove through a judgment and have the result upheld on appeal. The deck is already stacked against you somewhat as a plaintiff bringing the case, and no doubt the NYT would have appealed any adverse trial court rulings, thereby increasing the risk of a protracted and uncertain result even further. That's one of the reasons you see so few of these cases actually litigated through trial and a judgment here in the US.

    Rather than route, Tesla made the right decision to enlist other media outlets with no preconceived biases and obtained priceless, positive publicity. You just can't buy the kind of publicity Tesla got the past week. And the NYT has been made to look pretty stupid by the other members of the media that had no problem making the trip Broder chose to fail at.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Sharpe View Post
    Just so you don't think I'm a complete novice here, I own a US corporation and have successfully participated in legal proceeding in the US.

  2. #1222
    P85 #6649 "Magic Carpet"
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    Tonight I'm really wondering how Tesla will choose to respond to the NYT new article, which -- if at all possible -- seems even more directly critical of Tesla.

  3. #1223
    Member K Hall's Avatar
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    No response needed. The issue was resolved with a slam offacts are empirical test. There will always be push back on the new technology.

    Rockefeller tried the same approach trying to stop electrically lighted homes a 100 years ago. Look how well that worked out for him. He just converted his refineries from making kerosene to gasoline.
    Last edited by K Hall; 2013-02-23 at 01:06 AM.
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  4. #1224
    Senior Member stopcrazypp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckessel View Post
    Talked to one of the Portland store folks yesterday and the NYT has made their life really difficult lately, combined with Tesla's stock dropping like a stone on the 4th quarter results. People come in the store to basically slam Tesla and insult them. And this is Oregon; a liberal, green state. I'd hate to be in the Texas store.
    I wonder if how many of those hate EVs already in the first place. Or maybe they are avid NYT readers and are offended by Tesla accusing them of lying.
    Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...

  5. #1225
    Sig S#118; R#770 (ret.) stevezzzz's Avatar
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    I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I saw that the NYT, in this most recent piece about the Broder kerfuffle, quoted out of context the first sentence of my initial reaction to Broder's story, which I posted on the first page of this thread back on February 8. Back then, I didn't have any of the other information about this story that we now do: the point-by-point analysis of Broder's writings here on TMC, Elon's twitters and blog post, the data logs, Broder's backfilling in response to the inconsistencies between his notes and the logs, etc. All I was going on was my initial reading of Broder's story and, even at that early date, in that first post I questioned why he didn't Range charge at Newark or take even a full Standard charge at Milford, and especially why he didn't plug in overnight at the hotel in Groton. I was prepared, since it was published in the eminently respectable NYT and Broder writes well, in a soothingly reasonable manner, to imagine that, somehow, Tesla failed to provide him with enough information to make the trip successfully.

    But that was then, and this is now. What's clear to me now is that Broder had several clear opportunities to make his road trip as boring and uneventful as the various successful re-creations we've read about since. He failed to take even one of those opportunities, in at least one case (a range charge at Newark) apparently ignoring Tesla's explicit instructions. But even more to the point, he failed to exercise common sense and did not display any clear desire to achieve a successful outcome: the whole thing was an excruciatingly slow train wreck played out over two days, with Broder asleep at the wheel.

    Broder was the one in the driver's seat, but to this day he takes no responsibility for the outcome: the car failed to do what he asked of it, full stop. It's an abdication of his basic responsibility as a driver (or, to make the aviation analogy, as the 'pilot-in-command': the ultimate authority and responsible party concerning the safe and successful conduct of any aircraft operation). His abdication of responsibility seems to me to be at the heart of why his account is inherently unreliable, all the gory details aside.

    Q: How do I avoid having media outlets cherry pick my forum posts and quote me out of context, without asking permission? Or should I just go hide under a rock?
    Last edited by stevezzzz; 2013-02-22 at 10:26 PM.

  6. #1226
    Roadster #1144 + Sig 114 dsm363's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevezzzz View Post
    I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I saw that the NYT, in this most recent piece about the Broder kerfuffle, quoted out of context the first sentence of my initial reaction to Broder's story, which I posted on the first page of this thread back on February 8. Back then, I didn't have any of the other information about this story that we now do: the point-by-point analysis of Broder's writings here on TMC, Elon's twitters and blog post, the data logs, Broder's backfilling in response to the inconsistencies between his notes and the logs, etc. All I was going on was my initial reading of Broder's story and, even at that early date, in that first post I questioned why he didn't Range charge at Newark or take even a full Standard charge at Milford, and especially why he didn't plug in overnight at the hotel in Groton. I was prepared, since it was published in the eminently respectable NYT and Broder writes well, in a soothingly reasonable manner, to imagine that, somehow, Tesla failed to provide him with enough information to make the trip successfully.

    But that was then, and this is now. What's clear to me now is that Broder had several clear opportunities to make his road trip as boring and uneventful as the various successful re-creations we've read about since. He failed to take even one of those opportunities, in at least one case (a range charge at Newark) apparently ignoring Tesla's explicit instructions. But even more to the point, he failed to exercise common sense and did not display any clear desire to achieve a successful outcome: the whole thing was an excruciatingly slow train wreck played out over two days, with Broder asleep at the wheel.

    Broder was the one in the driver's seat, but to this day he takes no responsibility for the outcome: the car failed to do what he asked of it, full stop. It's an abdication of his basic responsibility as a driver (or, to make the aviation analogy, as the 'pilot-in-command': the ultimate authority and responsible party concerning the safe and successful conduct of any aircraft operation). His abdication of responsibility seems to me to be at the heart of why his account is inherently unreliable, all the gory details aside.

    Q: How do I avoid having media outlets cherry pick my forum posts and quote me out of context, without asking permission? Or should I just go hide under a rock?
    Have you contacted the editor?

    public@nytimes.com

    I do not know why the Times decided to stir things up again. Notice how this wasn't written by a particular reporter, just the New York Times. Does that mean it's an editorial?
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  7. #1227
    Senior Member vfx's Avatar
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    The first time using a new piece of technology replacing the old tech there may be mistakes made. The physical manifestations are different for each device though.

    When moving from a typewriter to a computer you may accidentally erase a few hours of typing or lock up your computer. When moving from a landline phone to a cellular network you might find there are areas out there where you loose and important call. When moving from an oven to a microwave you may find the pasty outside is still cool but when you bite into it you scald you mouth. Or when moving from an gasoline engine to and electric motor / battery car you might not fill with enough energy to get to your next destination and end up freezing on the side of the road. doh. This is not the fault of the technology. It's just a different set of rules. I still question Tesla asking reporters air out these "first time" discoveries in the press.

  8. #1228
    mod squad bonnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevezzzz View Post
    I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when I saw that the NYT, in this most recent piece about the Broder kerfuffle, quoted out of context the first sentence of my initial reaction to Broder's story, which I posted on the first page of this thread back on February 8. Back then, I didn't have any of the other information about this story that we now do: the point-by-point analysis of Broder's writings here on TMC, Elon's twitters and blog post, the data logs, Broder's backfilling in response to the inconsistencies between his notes and the logs, etc. All I was going on was my initial reading of Broder's story and, even at that early date, in that first post I questioned why he didn't Range charge at Newark or take even a full Standard charge at Milford, and especially why he didn't plug in overnight at the hotel in Groton. I was prepared, since it was published in the eminently respectable NYT and Broder writes well, in a soothingly reasonable manner, to imagine that, somehow, Tesla failed to provide him with enough information to make the trip successfully.

    But that was then, and this is now. What's clear to me now is that Broder had several clear opportunities to make his road trip as boring and uneventful as the various successful re-creations we've read about since. He failed to take even one of those opportunities, in at least one case (a range charge at Newark) apparently ignoring Tesla's explicit instructions. But even more to the point, he failed to exercise common sense and did not display any clear desire to achieve a successful outcome: the whole thing was an excruciatingly slow train wreck played out over two days, with Broder asleep at the wheel.

    Broder was the one in the driver's seat, but to this day he takes no responsibility for the outcome: the car failed to do what he asked of it, full stop. It's an abdication of his basic responsibility as a driver (or, to make the aviation analogy, as the 'pilot-in-command': the ultimate authority and responsible party concerning the safe and successful conduct of any aircraft operation). His abdication of responsibility seems to me to be at the heart of why his account is inherently unreliable, all the gory details aside.

    Q: How do I avoid having media outlets cherry pick my forum posts and quote me out of context, without asking permission? Or should I just go hide under a rock?
    A few forum members have added copyright info to their signature, that shows with each post - and a note that they are not to be quoted without express permission. I'm not sure that does any good, but it probably doesn't hurt. At least it gives you a way to protest later.

    More bothersome to me (than the fact they quoted you out of context) is the issue of using anonymous forum posts to support a story. I know you, but if I didn't, you could easily be a NYT journalist, deliberately planting quotes that you then quote as part of your story. That's a problem.

    Sources should be known, even anonymous sources may be revealed to an editor. This recent business of quoting forum members, operating under pseudonyms, is not worthy of the reputation that NYT has worked so hard to build.

    The Fourth Estate has become insignificant.
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  9. #1229
    Senior Member vfx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonnie1194 View Post
    ...
    Sources should be known, even anonymous sources may be revealed to an editor.....
    An entire article that is based on the random comments from anonymous internet posters? Where is the journalism in that?

  10. #1230
    Burrito Founder brianman's Avatar
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    NYT sinks another notch.

    Also, if Elon had a gentleman's agreement with them, NYT just violated it.
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    PLEASE NOTE: these musings are the copyrighted intellectual property of the author, and are intended as part of a conversation among the Tesla Motors Clubs membership. My words may not be quoted by any third party outside the Tesla Motors Clubs forums, without my expressed consent. Especially the NYT, which is clearly ethically challenged.

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