Charging at work - lots of 15amp sockets a good idea?

tdiggity · Jan 18, 2013

I've been talking to our building team about how best to install chargers in our garage. At first, I was shooting for maybe 3-5 L2 chargers in a lot of ~100 spots. But, thinking about it some more, this won't scale. Once one EV pops up, more will. In fact, there's already 3 Volts. I can see it already...we'll be sending emails reminding everyone to not use charging unless you need it or move when you're done...not ideal.

After reading the airport parking thread it's got me thinking that it would be more cost effective to install 5-15 sockets in the garage. One at every parking stall may be a bit much, but maybe one in every three spots sounds reasonable. People shouldn't depend on these to get around, but could think of it as a boost in range. "If your EV can't make it to work and back home, you shouldn't count on this" is my motto.

Has anyone seen a great solution at their workplace? One note: My workplace is kind enough to say that whatever we do, it'll be free.

Laumb · Jan 18, 2013

We only have 230V 10A outlets on maybe 10-20 spots (havnet counted them) meant for engine heaters on regular cars.
I will use these to Keep it plugged In, just to Keep pack warm, cabin heated from the grid and not really count on any Range of significanse during winter - but It might be it is the thing I need at summertime going to the summerplace instead of home every day (46km roundtrip to home<->work and 130km roundtrip to our camping).

Let me suggest you guys getting 5 lvl 2 chargepoints and 10-15 regular outlets? Might Keep the Volts and other fake EVs from the lvl 2s.

_____
Tapatalkin' from iTalatut.

dsm363 · Jan 18, 2013

I think maybe a handful of level 2 spots for pure EVs and a ton of 15A outlets might work well. If it is just standard outlet though, don't people have to bring their own cable? They would probably prefer to use the EVSE at work instead of bringing theirs from home.

Would something like this work?
http://www.clippercreek.com/uploads/ClipperCreek%20-%20ACS_v1.pdf

markwj · Jan 18, 2013

I'd go for lots of 240V 10A, or whatever you have around that range. Cheap and cheerful. That is 2.4kWh and gives a pretty good top-up if the car is connected for 8 hours during the work day.

tdiggity · Jan 18, 2013

dsm363 said:
Would something like this work?
http://www.clippercreek.com/uploads/ClipperCreek%20-%20ACS_v1.pdf

Yikes these things cost as much as L2's. Seems like a good idea though.

Are the Leaf and Volt charge cords as portable as the UMC? From a cost perspective, the naked 5-15 sockets and bring your own cord solution would be the cheapest.

dsm363 · Jan 18, 2013

tdiggity said:
Yikes these things cost as much as L2's. Seems like a good idea though.

Are the Leaf and Volt charge cords as portable as the UMC? From a cost perspective, the naked 5-15 sockets and bring your own cord solution would be the cheapest.

Ouch, didn't see the price. You're right, that seems like a lot for that low powered solution. They build very sturdy products though but have to consider installation costs. If they're willing to install many 240V spots then definitely go for that but some kind of wall mounted solution where the person can park and use the station and work and leave their cable at home would be ideal.

The bring your own cord would be the cheapest but the cables could also get stolen. Maybe wire up a bunch of spots with 110V max amp connections then slowly add the EVSEs as needed? People can notify someone at work that they are having to bring their own cable each day and would like a wall mounted EVSE. That way the cost could be spread out over time but the wiring could be done at once.

How high can you go with a 110V volt run (15A or 20A)? The Clipper creek PDF says

PRODUCT SPECS
• Service Entrance: 110V – 15, 20, or 25 Amp Circuit, single phase, 2-wire with
ground – Conduit and pigtail supplied

but didn't realize you could get a 25A circuit normally.

markwj · Jan 18, 2013

tdiggity said:
Yikes these things cost as much as L2's. Seems like a good idea though.

Are the Leaf and Volt charge cords as portable as the UMC? From a cost perspective, the naked 5-15 sockets and bring your own cord solution would be the cheapest.

I really think the zerocarbonworld.org approach is the best for workplace daytime and hotel overnight.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1358557187.229581.jpg

Cheap and cheerful.

Not sure if there is something similar in USA, though.

constraint · Jan 19, 2013

I was asked to help think through my companies strategy and when thinking about need vs want. Thinking longer term the recommendation and reasons are below.

Need vs want
1. For the most part, cars will be driving to and from their homes with typically commutes between 5 and 40 miles. This range can easily be replenished during an 8 hour work day with a 115v 12 amp connection.
2. Due to our cold climate, some/most ev's would like a power source for battery conditioning.
3. As the number of BEV and PHEV increase the enormous cost of wiring L2 charges are unsustainable to provide an L2 charging for every car.
4. It is not reasonable to assume that after a car is done charging that the employee will change their parking spots to allow another car to take advantage of the charger.
5. Use Case 1 for required L2 charging are employee's that arrive to work without enough charge to get home (or destinations after work).
6. Use Case 2 for L2 is an employee that has to make unexpected trips to our satalite locations, offsite meetings or airport runs.
7. Use case 3 for L2 is BEV's that may/may not be employee's needing high capacity charging for various personal reasons.

So what did we decide?
It is fairly easy to create a 115 circuit but at the same token creating 100 circuits is out of the question as the building doesn't have that capacity and the cost for trenching and wiring is way to expensive. Essentially our company created a bank of parking spots that require a special tag hung on your mirror. If you need 115v charging you are welcome to a spot, but you are not guaranteed a space and you should plan for the days when charging may not be available (use gas in your volt those couple days). At some point in the future the plan is to have L2 charging in our visitor's parking lot so those in emergency situations as stated in the use cases will not be stranded.

FlasherZ · Jan 19, 2013

dsm363 said:
but didn't realize you could get a 25A circuit normally.

Sure you can. For direct-wire applications, you can get a lot of different sizes. It's just that there are limitations on what you can do if the circuit is for plug-and-cord receptacles because of the limited receptacle sizes. For example, Eaton CH breakers come in single-pole (120V) 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, and 70-amp varieties.

brianman · Jan 19, 2013

constraint said:
I was asked to help think through my companies strategy and when thinking about need vs want. Thinking longer term the recommendation and reasons are below.

Need vs want
1. For the most part, cars will be driving to and from their homes with typically commutes between 5 and 40 miles. This range can easily be replenished during an 8 hour work day with a 115v 12 amp connection.
2. Due to our cold climate, some/most ev's would like a power source for battery conditioning.
3. As the number of BEV and PHEV increase the enormous cost of wiring L2 charges are unsustainable to provide an L2 charging for every car.
4. It is not reasonable to assume that after a car is done charging that the employee will change their parking spots to allow another car to take advantage of the charger.
5. Use Case 1 for required L2 charging are employee's that arrive to work without enough charge to get home (or destinations after work).
6. Use Case 2 for L2 is an employee that has to make unexpected trips to our satalite locations, offsite meetings or airport runs.
7. Use case 3 for L2 is BEV's that may/may not be employee's needing high capacity charging for various personal reasons.

So what did we decide?
It is fairly easy to create a 115 circuit but at the same token creating 100 circuits is out of the question as the building doesn't have that capacity and the cost for trenching and wiring is way to expensive. Essentially our company created a bank of parking spots that require a special tag hung on your mirror. If you need 115v charging you are welcome to a spot, but you are not guaranteed a space and you should plan for the days when charging may not be available (use gas in your volt those couple days). At some point in the future the plan is to have L2 charging in our visitor's parking lot so those in emergency situations as stated in the use cases will not be stranded.

Is it mostly a wiring cost or an energy supply cost? Let me rephrase my question...

Does it become feasible to offer 50 outlets if each outlet had a draw limit of 0.5A (@ 110V)?

JohnQ · Jan 19, 2013

brianman said:
Is it mostly a wiring cost or an energy supply cost? Let me rephrase my question...

Does it become feasible to offer 50 outlets if each outlet had a draw limit of 0.5A (@ 110V)?

The way I read it is that the trenching and wiring is too expensive rather than the cost of the power. Although not perfect, the solution put in place is pretty reasonable.

mknox · Jan 20, 2013

For those considering this in Ontario, Canada:

86-306 Receptacles for electric vehicle charging equipment (see Appendix B)
(1) Each receptacle for the purpose of electric vehicle charging shall be labelled in a conspicuous, legible, and permanent manner identifying it as an electric vehicle charging receptacle and shall be
(a) a single receptacle of CSA configuration 5-20R supplied from a 125 V branch circuit rated not less than 20 A; or
(b) of the appropriate CSA configuration in accordance with Diagram 1 or 2 when supplied from a branch circuit rated at more than 125 V or more than 20 A.
(2) The receptacle in Subrule (1)(a) shall be protected with a ground fault circuit interrupter of the Class A type, when the receptacle is installed outdoors and within 2.5 m of finished grade.

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Charging at work - lots of 15amp sockets a good idea?

tdiggity

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tdiggity

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markwj

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constraint

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