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120 KWh batter in 2014?

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adiggs

Well-Known Member
Sep 25, 2012
6,423
24,529
Portland, OR
Sure wish this article was better sourced - this article (link below) on The Motley Fool includes a claim of 120 KWh batteries coming our way in 2014. Seems like a nice option to bring along with Model X (AWD, performance, 120 KWh battery pack - my fantasy Model X options are starting to sound expense :biggrin:). And of course, then also retrofit and make available on S's.


http://beta.fool.com/piyusharora/20...&published=2012-12-12&source=eptcnnlnk0000001


Has anybody seen this discussed anywhere else?
 
I have started to reverse engineer the battery tray size roughly and how many batteries you can fit in there. I came up with approximately 11,000 batteries max. Either you have some mighty powerful cells available or we have a new battery technology coming. I have done a lot of battery work in my career but not with Lithium.
 
I would REALLY like the option for a >85kwh battery in the Model X. It will be our long distance driving car. A frequent trip for us is a drive to a particular spot in the mountains that almost fully drains our Model S 85kwh battery in standard mode, and the X will have a smaller range with the same battery. No super charger on the way and probably won't be anytime soon since it's not a major route.
 
I would REALLY like the option for a >85kwh battery in the Model X. It will be our long distance driving car. A frequent trip for us is a drive to a particular spot in the mountains that almost fully drains our Model S 85kwh battery in standard mode, and the X will have a smaller range with the same battery. No super charger on the way and probably won't be anytime soon since it's not a major route.

This. Honestly, I'd pay more for a bigger pack in my current S. As I was discussing with someone today, I underestimated how many miles I drive and over estimated how much ACTUAL range I could get out of the pack (without driving 55 with no heat). With that 30% increase in range, I could get closer to 300 actual miles per charge.

I think putting a 120kwh pack in the X might mean the same amount of range I see in the S currently though :(
 
Seems like a nice option to bring along with Model X (AWD, performance, 120 KWh battery pack - my fantasy Model X options are starting to sound expense

I am really hoping that this will be the case with the model X. The question is if they will drop the 60 kwh battery and offer the 120 and 85 at the 85 and 60 price points or if they will offer a 120, 85 and 60 kwh options...
 
Sure wish this article was better sourced - this article (link below) on The Motley Fool includes a claim of 120 KWh batteries coming our way in 2014. Seems like a nice option to bring along with Model X (AWD, performance, 120 KWh battery pack - my fantasy Model X options are starting to sound expense :biggrin:). And of course, then also retrofit and make available on S's.


http://beta.fool.com/piyusharora/20...&published=2012-12-12&source=eptcnnlnk0000001


Has anybody seen this discussed anywhere else?

The article says that Tesla stated that 120 KWh batteries will be available in 2014. I would like it were confirmed from Tesla. But from the above comments it looks like that there is no confirmation from Tesla. Right?
 
The article says that Tesla stated that 120 KWh batteries will be available in 2014. I would like it were confirmed from Tesla. But from the above comments it looks like that there is no confirmation from Tesla. Right?
AFAIK, the largest battery Tesla ever announced is 85 kWh (for both Model S and Model X). The Model X will only have two options: 60 kWh and 85 kWh. If they ever officially announced something bigger, I'm sure there would be a thread dedicated to it here.

On the other hand, the next-gen version of the 3100mAh cells the 85kWh pack uses is already out in the market. It's called the NCR18650B (vs the NCAR18650A in the Model S) and is 3400mAh. That means 1.097x the battery size with no change in volume and nearly no change in weight. That means a 93kWh battery is possible today, although ten months ago I predicted it being in a car on 2014 at the earliest, given the 2 year lag the previous batteries took.

We had a similar thread on this topic here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...nto-production?p=111988&viewfull=1#post111988
 
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What we can be sure of, is that if Elon et al is strategizing a 93, 125, or whatever KWh pack ... until it is finished, nobody will know as it is this kind of proprietary work and secrecy that must be maintained in order to keep Tesla flowing forward.

Now, I am not saying that AsiaTech123Specialties.com (for example) isn't also working on non-OEM batteries concurrently (which actually might not be a bad thing), just that Tesla has been ultra tight lipped about battery technology from the start.
 
The additional weight of the batteries to make 120 Kwh pack may vey well be less than 400 miles. We may very well negate the effects of the extra batteries. The weight could also effect the 0-60 time etc.
 
Pros:
- Quicker supercharging (or at least the charger will be able to stay at 90kWh longer
- More power can be drawed from the batteries=better performance
- More range

You can't be sure of the first two, because the higher energy density cells might have lower power density.

They are also still very expensive compared to the last generation in the same numbers Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah Batteries (Box of 180)


NCR18650B-Discharge-500x500.jpg
 
You can't be sure of the first two, because the higher energy density cells might have lower power density.

They are also still very expensive compared to the last generation in the same numbers Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mah Batteries (Box of 180)

From the same website, the retail cost for NCR18650B is $1995 for 180, discounted to $1795. The NCR18650A is $1595 for 180. So even for the discount price, the cost is 1.125x the cells in the Model S. Given the new cells are 1.097x the capacity, the price is higher for the new cells on a per kWh basis. I suspect in two years though, they will be made in larger numbers and the per kWh pricing will be cheaper (esp. with the bulk buy Tesla will get).