It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[DuncanWatson]

This caught my eye:

20C !?! That would allow the battery to charge completely in 5 minutes. Of course, getting 85kWh of power into a battery in 5 minutes requires a rate of charging of about 1,900 kW (including losses). Pzzzap!

At least we found something that you consider high voltage

[EVNow]

20C !?! That would allow the battery to charge completely in 5 minutes. Of course, getting 85kWh of power into a battery in 5 minutes requires a rate of charging of about 1,900 kW (including losses). Pzzzap!

Lithium Titanate batteries like the SCiB from Toshiba already come close to achieving that.

Super-Charge Ion Battery (SCiB™)

•Minimal Capacity Loss, Even After 6,000 Charge-Discharge Cycles

•SCiB Batteries Charge in as Little as 10 Minutes

[rolosrevenge]

Substations will be the gas stations of the future if you want that kind of power transfer.

[Norbert]

Substations will be the gas stations of the future if you want that kind of power transfer.

Well, if the charger is connected to a local battery (which has been charged at a lower rate, or from solar), then it is just a matter of a connecting the two batteries.

[JRP3]

Yeah larger dump packs that are charged more slowly seem like the only reasonable way to deliver that type of power in a short time period.

[hcsharp]

Substations will be the gas stations of the future if you want that kind of power transfer.

It will be an interesting evolution when that happens - the price of "gas" will depend on what time of day you buy it, not on the normal factors that affect retail gas prices.

[richkae]

Imagine that you could build a small gas turbine - just a few MW - that was almost as efficient as a big multiple-100 MW turbine at a powerplant.
If the efficiency is within a few percent the transmission losses you save make it a wash, if it is the same efficiency you can save the transmission losses - and be ahead of the big turbine.
Now imagine that those turbines are only a few tons and a couple thousand cubic feet in volume so that you can put them where you want charging stations.
They could provide power to their local grid, and when an EV pulls up that wants to charge its 100kWh pack in 10 minutes - it throttles up an extra 600kW for those 10 minutes.

I'd prefer a renewable source to natural gas, but natural gas is the best that isn't renewable at the moment. Decentralized generation for the win.

[JRP3]

The problem with that idea might be that power plants need to be run near capacity as much as possible to be profitable and to realize good efficiency. Having a turbine oversized and underutilized most of the time is going to be expensive and inefficient, as is having a large enough pipeline that can feed it's maximum demand. It might not be a practical setup.

[DuncanWatson]

I don't think fast charging will have daily usage by anyone. I think that a small percentage of travelers will be utilizing fast charging. It may be possible to supplement our infrastructure with batteries that can store some power for this infrequent high draw.

[richkae]

The problem with that idea might be that power plants need to be run near capacity as much as possible to be profitable and to realize good efficiency. Having a turbine oversized and underutilized most of the time is going to be expensive and inefficient, as is having a large enough pipeline that can feed it's maximum demand. It might not be a practical setup.

But that is the way most gas turbine powerplants run. They run hard during the very few peak hours of the day and are completely off overnight.
Robert.Boston, you reading this thread?