It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[JRP3]

I agree that the Tesla buying population is probably more likely to take more long trips than the average individual, but they are also probably more likely to have access to additional vehicles or other modes of transport. I understand preferring to take your EV instead, which should be possible eventually.

[jerry33]

On average, twice a year. I'm likely to charge for a few hours on long trips, but of course, I'd much rather not And perhaps I can go 400 miles on a charge after I learn to drive the Tesla efficiently. My last fill in the Prius was 72.2 mpg.

[dsm363]

400 miles on the 85kWh pack would probably mean you're driving an average of 40 mph (just a guess) but definitely less than what people drive on Texas highways. Might be possible on smaller state highways but then there are also less places to charge. For only twice a year, it'd probably be less hassle to just take the Prius but you could take the Model S if you plan ahead. You'd probably need three stops at campgrounds with 40A charging to make an 800 mile trip.

[jerry33]

400 miles on the 85kWh pack would probably mean you're driving an average of 40 mph (just a guess) but definitely less than what people drive on Texas highways. Might be possible on smaller state highways but then there are also less places to charge.

I've found that with the Prius you can get quite a bit better mpg by using additional instrumentation and driving to it (I use the Scangauge). By speeding up on the downhill parts and slowing down on the uphill parts you can reduce the amount of energy you use and still travel close the same average speed.

I always travel on the state highways whenever possible because they are more interesting to drive on and have almost no traffic. In many places the state highways parallel the interstate so it's only a couple of miles out of the way to a charger (assuming that's where a charging station is located).

[dpeilow]

Graphene-Silicon Anodes for Li-ion Batteries Go Commercial - IEEE Spectrum

[Robert.Boston]

Graphene-Silicon Anodes for Li-ion Batteries Go Commercial - IEEE Spectrum

A "GEN3" battery made in California -- where else have I heard about a revolutionary "GEN3" product made in California? Perhaps one will use the other.

[JRP3]

“Incredibly, some energy storage systems providers and independent power producers today are using hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of small cylindrical cell batteries in massive utility-scale storage systems. This approach is simply too costly and not viable. Large storage must be built from large batteries, not small batteries originally designed for powered hand tools. Our VLF battery has a clear performance and cost advantage in providing the massive currents needed with the minimum materials and battery management components, resulting in a more affordable lithium-ion battery for wide-scale use.”

Exactly what I've been suggesting all along. It looks as if they are going to improve a large format CALB LiFePO4 prismatic, the same cells I have in my car. A better, cheaper, drop in replacement would be awesome.

[Alfred]

Also Elon Musk suggested a couple of years ago that he would prefer a simpler battery, but so far no one has succeeded to match Tesla's current approach. One of the reasons is cooling. A larger number of cells can present a larger surface to a cooling/heating medium. This has turned out to be more important than many thought. Another is the large investment in innovation and improvements that the current mass production of small cells was able to attract. So some manufacturers plan currently to offer larger cells first rather for utility markets for peak shaving and equalization of intermittent generation by wind and solar - also those cells quoted above, note the reference to utility scale:
"Incredibly, some energy storage systems providers and independent power producers today are using hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of small cylindrical cell batteries in massive utility-scale storage systems. This approach is simply too costly and not viable...."
Some interesting snippets in this direction can be also gleaned from Leclanché's annual report (in German).
This leaves me with the impression that Tesla might have to hang on to smaller cells for the immediate future.

[dpeilow]

We used to have a troll on here that claimed Tesla's small cell approach would leave them high and dry once the rest of the industry got up to speed on larger format packs. I'm still waiting...

[JRP3]

Tesla's approach gives them the best specific energy density and the lowest cost, but the LiCo chemistry is also more heat sensitive, has shorter cycle life, and lower C rates. There are always trade offs. The LiFePO4 chemistry needs less temperature management, has longer cycle life, some, like A123, can have extremely high C rates, so if the energy density can be improved it's probably going to be a better chemistry. And you won't have to deal with thousands of cells. Tesla can always adapt if it makes sense to do so.