Truly Electric Spaceship-Like Adventure ~ Signature Model Spaceship
PLEASE NOTE: these musings are the copyrighted intellectual property of the author, and are intended as part of a conversation among the Tesla Motors Clubs membership. My words may not be quoted by any third party outside the Tesla Motors Clubs forums, without my expressed consent. Especially the NYT, which is clearly ethically challenged.
Yes, actually, I do know. You would know too if you'd done your research. The warranty law is quite clear, and George B's public statements are quite clear.You don't KNOW there is a violation,
Or, you know, in actual fact.you've built a case in your mind that there is.
It happens to be a fact: Tesla has stated their intent to violate federal warranty law. Perhaps they'll go ahead and obey the law anyway, but it's shoddy corporate behavior, and it's something they should fix. If Tesla would fix the problem, Tesla would stop exposing itself to a legal risk which it is bound to hit sooner or later. Before I even noticed the Warranty Act problem, there was at least one reservation holder at the Tesla official forums who said, roughly, "nobody touches my car but me, I'm not buying maintenance from Tesla, and I expect Tesla to honor my warranty." So someone's going to do it.What's going on? Why the constant posting about it, but at the same time advising against it?
I don't advise doing it because it's a big hassle and I think Tesla's pricing would be reasonable apart from the half-assed, poorly-thought-out scheme used for the warranty.
My posting isn't "constant", it's only WHEN THE TOPIC COMES UP.
What's going on? Why are certain people really hostile to facts? There's lots of positive facts to publish about Tesla. And there are some negative ones.
Edit 2: perhaps the phrase "as an investor" should give you a clue as to why I care at all whether Tesla ignores federal law.
Edit: by the way, negative reptuation points on this forum are ******** and should probably be abolished; they seem to be used primarily when people don't like to hear facts.
I take "Electro", my amazing Model S, to the train station: yes, it's a station wagon
I see it differently. And I'm not going to engage.
I'll just let the wheels of time resolve this one.
PLEASE NOTE: Posts are the copyrighted intellectual property of the author, and are intended as part of a conversation within this forum. My words may NOT be quoted outside this forum, without my expressed consent.
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Let's face it, we are all adults here, this isn't 6th grade. I may not agree with nerodens or some others posts here, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. If one doesn't agree, they can debate, but the backstabbing reputation points shows just what kind of person you are.
I have been here since the beginning. This used to be the best forum out of any I have visited(dozens), but now has become just like any other. The technical and usefull info here is sparse nowadays. Pretty sad.
1) are you a lawyer?
2) if so, is your area of specialty federal warranty law or any kind of warranty law and/or automobile servicing?
3) and if so, are you up to date with current case law in these areas?
Reason I'm asking is that I have to believe that Tesla has run its warranty and servicing strategy by lawyers who are trained legal specialists and are up to date with current case law in the area of federal and state warranty laws and automobile servicing laws and regulations. Elon is many things but stupid about the law and the risks of running afoul of laws and regulations isn't one of them. Not after Paypal and SpaceX. You think Elon is going to risk Telsa's future on an obvious legal issue? Or any legal issue?
So my bet is that if you don't have deep subject matter expertise in this area, the odds are high that what seems to you to be a clear legal violation isn't.
My post-finalize design PDF shows the full base price ("excluding $7500 federal tax credit"). I do feel they should list the credit on a separate line item, just before the total, where it is taken out. I don't believe it's deceptive, though (which requires intent); I believe it's just a poorly designed break-down.
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What the written warranty says is not illegal because it matches what the FTC says is allowed in written warranties (bold parts my emphasis):
PDF written warranty link here:Although Tesla does not require you to perform all maintenance, service or repairs at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty may be voided or coverage may be excluded due to lack of or improper maintenance, service or repairs. Tesla Service Centers and Tesla authorized repair facilities have special training, expertise, tools and supplies with respect to your vehicle and, in certain cases, may employ the only persons or be the only facilities authorized or certified to work on certain parts of your vehicle. Tesla strongly recommends that you have all maintenance, service and repairs done at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility in order to avoid voiding, or having coverage excluded under, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
The main thing is Tesla can't require a specific service plan or you to only get service from them for the warranty to be valid. But they CAN require maintenance/service/repairs in general (not necessarily done by Tesla) for the warranty to be valid. The special situation right now is a lot of the service (mainly the checkup of the motor/batteries) can only be practically done by Tesla right now because there's really no third party EV servicing industry yet (the FTC exemption is designed for this situation). I think that's what George B's trying to say. It's a similar situation for the Leaf and Volt, but they just cost less for annual service.
Because there are tons of crazy people in this world...
I did some spreadsheet work to compare the total cost of each service plan option over 8 years, dependent on your average percentage return on investments, compounded annually during those 8 years. Here's the summary:
If your average return on investments is less than 4% annually, you should go with the 8-year prepaid ($3800) service plan.
If your average return on investments is between 4% and 10% annually, you should go with the 4-year prepaid ($1900) service plan and then pay-as-you-go $600 annually for the remaining 4 years.
If your average return on investments is greater than 10% annually, you should pay-as-you-go $600 annually for 8 years.
NOTE: None of this analysis includes any cost of Ranger service. It assumes all your service is done at a service center. It also assumes the pay-as-you-go service cost remains at $600 annually over the next 8 years. Of course, there are risks from locking yourself in with a prepayment as well.
P4932 - Perf,Brown/Black,Pano,Spoiler,21"Grey,ObecheGloss,Tech,Sound,Shelf,Armor,TwinCh - Delivery: December 22, 2012 at Fremont factory
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