Roadster trade-in ... how would you feel if ...

If it is only $742 then I say what the heck. If you are not happy with the price they come up with, just say no and sell it yourself. There may be a slight difference in tax, but you have to be happy that you did not trade it in at too low a $$ amount. You can always counter offer too. Tesla may want the car bad enough to pay for the tires themselves!

I guess the problem is the 'certified'. They have to take responsibility for it, so want it stock.

It could be that they're very transparent with the price determination, and I don't have a problem with that. Now should they replace the AD08's that may be brand new, with 15 miles on them, with brand new AD07's. I would say that's really silly. The traction is the same, it seems like the same tire in every way except the tread pattern, and that tread pattern matches / pairs very well with the front AD07s. I don't see why they can't re-certify the AD08's. That's the issue I'd have. But to be fair, they can offer you whatever they want for the car, and not really disclose why they made that offer. I do find it odd for the fact that they don't certify the AD08s. What does it take, a track run or two... possibly something else that I'm missing.

Clearly AD08s are not the same as AD07s, or there would only be one model.

The critical issue is that you are not dealing with some independant used car dealer, you are dealing with the manufacturer. If they resold your car with AD08s, that would imply that they endorse the AD08s.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can imagine a lawyer telling Tesla to only sell the car with the tires it was tested with.

I think Tesla is being 100% reasonable.

richkae said:

Clearly AD08s are not the same as AD07s, or there would only be one model.

The critical issue is that you are not dealing with some independant used car dealer, you are dealing with the manufacturer. If they resold your car with AD08s, that would imply that they endorse the AD08s.

I'm not a lawyer, but I can imagine a lawyer telling Tesla to only sell the car with the tires it was tested with.

I think Tesla is being 100% reasonable.

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I do think its a Lawyer thing plus the high cost of having a new set of tires certified for a vehicle by the manufacturer. My opinion on why there are two models is for that Yokohama most likely are making $$$ with these certified tires that the automotive industry approved at the time of the Lotus Elise. They're making almost twice the margin on the AD07's vs. the AD08's. But also if they stop making the AD07s, then all the automotive manufactures who certified the AD07s would now have to bear the cost of recertifying the AD08s. The latter makes the most sense. The AD08's were replacements for the AD07's, it appears to be a better tire:
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 - Car News - RoadandTrack.com


A new tire has hit the street. Yokohama's ADVAN Neova AD08 will replace the AD07 for 2009. The Neova first appeared in the U.S. market as original equipment on the Lotus Elise. That honor alone qualified it as a tire to be considered by the demanding automotive enthusiast. The new tire improves dry grip, wet grip and mileage. It's street civil, but track approved. For the performance inclined, the AD08 improves on the AD07's lap times, by a half second for every minute, says Yokohama. The improvements are achieved with a new micro silica compound, steel sidewall inserts and revised tread pattern. The result is quicker steering response, improved stability and a larger contact patch while cornering. The tire maintains its treadwear rating of 180 and will be offered in a wider range of sizes than its predecessor; 32 sizes, ranging from 205/50-R15 to 295/30ZR-19.

Don't you have a week at least before your Model S arrives? Advertise the Roadster and see what happens. I know it's not much time to sell a car but what do you have to lose?

Oh, and if you want to sell me your AD08s and they still have at least 75% of the original tread, let me know. I can probably pick them up in Natick.

I wouldn't feel great but I understand Tesla's position. Legally, they're not a car dealer. They're a manufacturer. I can understand they're wanting to sell any used Roadsters as perfectly stock.

I can understand their position on having you replace the tires too. I bet they're set up to do some work on used Roadsters but not tires. Why should they? Tires are easy for consumers to deal with and a pain for them.

I'm sure they've bought or contracted all the tires they need for their last batch of Roadsters at wholesale (or below) prices direct from Yokohama. Yoko's not going to want to add two more to that number. It's too small an order. So they're going to have buy from another source which means adding that into the supply chain management systems. And supply chain people hate managing orders of 1 or 2 of something. They're set up to deal with large quantities of stuff, not small. So Tesla's going to put itself through all that hassle for two tires that you as a consumer can buy from Tire Rack?

Ugh. Much much easier for them to have you deal with it.

P.S. -- btw, have you ever turned in a car that you leased? What you're going through sounds similar. Only most manufacturers can be less picky about the tires, probably because they turn around and sell the cars to their dealers. Which Tesla can't do because they don't have any.

I couldn’t understand why Tesla would have such an issue regarding the tires. However, in the prospectus for the most recent offering, which was completed on October 3, 2012, there is the following statement under Risk Factors on page S-32:

If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles or change the charging infrastructure with aftermarket products, the vehicle may not operate properly, which could harm our business.

Automobile enthusiasts may seek to “hack” our vehicles to modify its performance which could compromise vehicle safety systems. Also, we are aware of customers who have customized their vehicles with after-market parts that may compromise driver safety. For example, some customers have installed seats that elevate the driver such that airbag and other safety systems could be compromised. Other customers have changed wheels and tires, while others have installed large speaker systems that may impact the electrical systems of the vehicle. We have not tested, nor do we endorse, such changes or products. In addition, customer use of improper external cabling or unsafe charging outlets can expose our customers to injury from high voltage electricity. Such unauthorized modifications could reduce the safety of our vehicles and any injuries resulting from such modifications could result in adverse publicity which would negatively affect our brand and harm our business, prospects, financial condition and operating results.

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What's stopping Tesla from modifing the car's firmware to accept the 08s since they are the new even better offering from Yoko? If Tesla is supporting the Roadster for better performance this seems like a natural progression.

cinergi said:

The only other thing I'll mention is that this is in addition to the pre-quote and $5,000 window.

I realize I have a choice (though in my personal situation I don't, which isn't Tesla's fault) but the trade-in number is quite poor (somewhat mitigated for me because I'll save on sales tax for the Model S). There's zero room for negotiation. As an original Roadster owner and advocate, I've been treated pretty poorly throughout the entire trade-in process. And then for them to come back and demand another $742 put me over the edge. Again, I know I have a choice but the customer service and appreciation aspect is completely absent in this entire process and I'm very disappointed with how I've been treated. If the rest of Tesla operated this way, I would not buy a Model S.

Thanks for the comments so far!

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I appreciate your ability to express your frustration in a constructive manner on this forum. I'm sure your feedback is valuable to Tesla, hopefully they're listening.

Was there any warning ahead of time that the same model tires had to be on the car to participate in the trade in program?

pgwoosley said:

Was there any warning ahead of time that the same model tires had to be on the car to participate in the trade in program?

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Probably not, but I got exactly the same sort of reaction from our local Merc dealer when I wanted to sell my CLK63 back to them. Basically he said that they'd have to return it to factory condition, and would almost certainly not be able to match anyone else's offer.