Charging options?

colinb · Oct 1, 2012

I've been starting to read up on the various charging options - is there a good FAQ somewhere? I want to take the 85 kWh Model S on a 470km trip which means I'll need to stop somewhere for a charge. Because it will have twin chargers I'm hoping I can get that top up a little quicker. What I'm not clear on is the impact of the different plug options on the rate of charge. At this point my understanding is that I should look for the highest amperage outlet possible, but with standards at play I'm not sure if that changes between the 14-50, J1772, etc...

mnx · Oct 2, 2012

Hi Colin,

Where are you driving to? Your best bet for charging quickly is a 70amp J1772 or Roadster HPC @ 70amps (assuming you could get some kind of adapter).

Your next best bet is a NEMA 14-50 at a campground (delivering 40A).

If the terrain is relatively flat, you might be able to make the trip without charging if you keep your speed down to ~80km/h.

dhrivnak · Oct 2, 2012

After traveling 13,000 miles and visiting dozens of j1772 stations i have yet to find a single one above 30 amps. Worse yet the vast majority are 3 phase power so you are limited to 200 volts or 6kw. So charging on the road is slow.

Doug_G · Oct 2, 2012

dhrivnak said:
After traveling 13,000 miles and visiting dozens of j1772 stations i have yet to find a single one above 30 amps. Worse yet the vast majority are 3 phase power so you are limited to 200 volts or 6kw. So charging on the road is slow.

You're far better off charging at a KOA if you can. "30A" is actually 24A continuous @ 208V = 5 kW. NEMA 14-50 208V @ 40A = 8.3 kW. If you can get 240V that's 9.6 kW. Since a certain portion goes to pack cooling, the effective charge rate is essentially double that of a lame "30A" J1772.

doug · Oct 2, 2012

Doug_G said:
"30A" is actually 24A continuous @ 208V = 5 kW.

I thought 30A advertised at the charging station was actually 30A continuous (as opposed the silly North American convention of labeling the supply wiring by the peak rating). So that's 6.2 kW.

dsm363 · Oct 2, 2012

doug said:
I thought 30A advertised at the charging station was actually 30A continuous (as opposed the silly North American convention of labeling the supply wiring by the peak rating). So that's 6.2 kW.

I think that's correct. All of the J1772 stations here allow you to charge at 30A.

donauker · Oct 2, 2012

doug said:
I thought 30A advertised at the charging station was actually 30A continuous (as opposed the silly North American convention of labeling the supply wiring by the peak rating). So that's 6.2 kW.

Yes this is correct. They are actually wired on a 40 amp circuit so in theory could provide 32 amps but the connectors were only rated at 30 amps so that is what they provide.

One install I tested was only able to deliver 192 volts at the 30 amp limit. It had a very long wire run from the panel!

colinb · Oct 2, 2012

I'm thinking about a drive up to the family in Sudbury, Ontario along the 400 highway. Sun Country Highway is installing a bunch of 90A J1772 but what isn't clear is whether I will get the full 80A fill having the twin chargers on board or not? Based on what Doug_G is saying it sounds like J1772 is limited to 30A?

PRJIM · Oct 2, 2012

colinb said:
I'm thinking about a drive up to the family in Sudbury, Ontario along the 400 highway. Sun Country Highway is installing a bunch of 90A J1772 but what isn't clear is whether I will get the full 80A fill having the twin chargers on board or not? Based on what Doug_G is saying it sounds like J1772 is limited to 30A?

No, J1772 is max rated to 75amps. Most J1772 EVSE's output ~30A.

doug · Oct 2, 2012

Removing the "FAQ" from the thread title to avoid confusion.

Zextraterrestrial · Oct 2, 2012

Where is voltage only 208V? my house is 242-245V on the 'smart' meter.
Is this some KOA specifically?

Robert.Boston · Oct 2, 2012

Zextraterrestrial said:
Where is voltage only 208V? my house is 242-245V on the 'smart' meter.
Is this some KOA specifically?

You get 208V if you're picking up 2 phases off the distribution lines. You get ~240V if you're splitting a single phase.

Zextraterrestrial · Oct 2, 2012

Robert.Boston said:
You get 208V if you're picking up 2 phases off the distribution lines. You get ~240V if you're splitting a single phase.

Interesting. So my house has 2 phases but the power was rectified( I think that is the opposite of what I mean?) in the transformer or at the plant?
but there are two phases running on the power lines ? so why split one, and huh? I should probably just get my EE and learn all of the other stuff that isn't Chem/Civil/Culinary/fun

roblab · Oct 2, 2012

Please be advised that "30 Amp" has different meanings. In an RV park, where one might look for 14-50 outlets and expect 40 amp 220 volt power, "30 Amp" means 110 volt, or 3.3 kw per hour. A true 220 volt 30 amp might be what you'd get from a J1772. But don't look for it at an RV park.

djp · Oct 2, 2012

colinb said:
I'm thinking about a drive up to the family in Sudbury, Ontario along the 400 highway. Sun Country Highway is installing a bunch of 90A J1772 but what isn't clear is whether I will get the full 80A fill having the twin chargers on board or not? Based on what Doug_G is saying it sounds like J1772 is limited to 30A?

The Sun Country Highway stations would be your best bet - if they're 90A (the website doesn't mention the size).

Electric Car Charging Stations Installed in Northern Ontario | Sun Country Highway

If the stations are only 30A then you'd be better off charging at the KOA in Barrie. Management there is EV friendly.

markb1 · Oct 2, 2012

Zextraterrestrial said:
Interesting. So my house has 2 phases but the power was rectified( I think that is the opposite of what I mean?) in the transformer or at the plant?
but there are two phases running on the power lines ? so why split one, and huh? I should probably just get my EE and learn all of the other stuff that isn't Chem/Civil/Culinary/fun

Your house has split phase. You have two hot wires and one neutral, and the two hots are 180 degrees apart. The other kind of electrical distribution is three phase, where there are three hots, each 120 degrees apart.

Doug_G · Oct 2, 2012

doug said:
I thought 30A advertised at the charging station was actually 30A continuous (as opposed the silly North American convention of labeling the supply wiring by the peak rating). So that's 6.2 kW.

The ones I have come across "in the wild" have been 24A, except where Sun Country Highway has been able to install 70A.

- - - Updated - - -

djp said:
The Sun Country Highway stations would be your best bet - if they're 90A (the website doesn't mention the size).

Electric Car Charging Stations Installed in Northern Ontario | Sun Country Highway

If the stations are only 30A then you'd be better off charging at the KOA in Barrie. Management there is EV friendly.

Sun Country Highway is installing 70A continuous wherever they can. However in some cases the location was only willing or able to support 24A continuous. If you do come across a 24A charger then you are far better off to find a KOA - you'll charge nearly twice as fast.

Lloyd · Oct 2, 2012

PRJIM said:
No, J1772 is max rated to 75amps. Most J1772 EVSE's output ~30A.

Not quite true. It is rated to 80 amps, and UL certified to 75.

mnx · Oct 3, 2012

colinb said:
I'm thinking about a drive up to the family in Sudbury, Ontario along the 400 highway. Sun Country Highway is installing a bunch of 90A J1772 but what isn't clear is whether I will get the full 80A fill having the twin chargers on board or not? Based on what Doug_G is saying it sounds like J1772 is limited to 30A?

If you find a high powered J1772 (eg. 70A) then you can use all that power if your car is equipped with twin chargers.

Doug_G · Oct 3, 2012

colinb said:
I'm thinking about a drive up to the family in Sudbury, Ontario along the 400 highway. Sun Country Highway is installing a bunch of 90A J1772 but what isn't clear is whether I will get the full 80A fill having the twin chargers on board or not? Based on what Doug_G is saying it sounds like J1772 is limited to 30A?

No, 70A J1772 charge stations really do exist. In fact we're going to install one at our new office later this week.

Charging options?

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