Customer Town Hall Meeting II Information

donauker · 01-30-2008, 07:46 PM

Here are a few of the items discussed today:

The Roadster motor will not be liquid cooled; it will basically be the current motor with enhanced air cooling (better air flow, fins, etc). The White Star will have a liquid cooled motor.

The new “transmission” actually just a reduction gearbox will have a 8.27:1 ratio which puts it between first gear at 14.3:1 and second gear at 7.4:1 on the 2 speed transmission, albeit rather close to second.

The motor top speed will move up to 14,000 rpm or possibly even higher for a top speed of at least 120 mph or greater.

A new improved PEM will provide more output current to the motor to increase torque output as well as provide full torque output to a slightly higher rpm range. Modeling & some test indicate that they will be able to maintain a 0 to 60 time of 4 seconds (no one was saying under 4 seconds anymore). The difference will be that 0 to 30 will be slower but 30 to 60 will be much quicker. This is due to the new setup maintaining full torque through 60 mph while with the old first gear torque started to fall off past 30 mph due to the higher motor rpm.

Additionally they reiterated that Whitestar development is proceeding and they plan on having a static model to show in the second quarter.

Yanquetino · 01-30-2008, 08:00 PM

Thanks, Donauker, for the info. Did the motor discussion occupy the entire meeting? Nothing else came up? Hard to imagine.

I must be missing something, but I don't understand why they would even bother trying to put a water-cooled motor in the Whitestar. It is supposed to be a sedan, not a super sports car like the Roadster. If it could hit 60 in, say, less than 8 seconds, and topped out at 100 mph, most drivers would be happy --and you wouldn't need any cooling. Why add all the extra weight and complication to the design? I say... keep it simple... and the cost down.

donauker · 01-30-2008, 08:13 PM

Liquid cooling is not needed for short duration peak acceleration it is needed for longer duration high load. The Whitstar will be a much larger & heavier vehicle. Think 4 or 5 passengers and bags climbing long grades.

stopcrazypp · 01-30-2008, 08:45 PM

Based on what I've seen here and at other blogs, this town hall meeting II basically confirmed that the roadster will not be liquid cool, but instead have better air cooling. I suppose it makes sense, as it would probably cost lots of money to switch to a liquid cooled setup this late in the game. What other things were discussed? I know a few of you went to the meeting. Thanks.

TEG · 01-30-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopcrazypp

Based on what I've seen here and at other blogs, this town hall meeting II basically confirmed that the roadster will not be liquid cool, but instead have better air cooling.

This article says: "Tesla is working on a liquid-cooled version"
So, some may have thought the "standard" production version would get water cooling, but it sounds like it is just an idea for a track special, and the Town Hall meeting clarifies it.

tonybelding · 01-31-2008, 01:29 AM

Here's a nice summary:

Tom Saxton

A small but interesting point to me was that Tesla still haven't made a firm decision about when or *where* the WhiteStar will be made. So, it would seem the whole New Mexico deal may be in danger of evaporating.

stopcrazypp · 01-31-2008, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

This article says: "Tesla is working on a liquid-cooled version"
So, some may have thought the "standard" production version would get water cooling, but it sounds like it is just an idea for a track special, and the Town Hall meeting clarifies it.

Yes, I was confused on that point too, as I think Sam from Autobloggreen originally said he was told by Tesla that the standard Roadster would be liquid cooled (he has since corrected to say that he confirmed that there would be more power put through the PEM requiring aggressive cooling and that "That means it will likely need to be liquid cooled." So it seems he is only inferring liquid cooling is what would be used).

BlackbirdHighway (a member here on Tesla Motors Club) commented: "Another correction for a previous Tesla article on this site:

The new plan is NOT to have a liquid cooled motor in the Roadster, but instead to beef up the air cooling, as well as an improved power electronics module (PEM). The new PEM not only provides more juice to the motor, but is also slightly more efficient as well. "

Here's the link to the article: Don't believe everything you read out there, Tesla production date has not slipped again - AutoblogGreen

So I guess it's just some confusion that the Town Hall Meeting II cleared up. Sam himself wrote an article on the track version you mentioned here: Revisiting the Tesla Roadster as a track car: it could happen - AutoblogGreen

I think the autoblog article you have is basically the same one, except reposted on autoblog.

So this meeting basically is another update on what they have planned on the roadster and a reaffirmation that Whitestar development is continuing along. Did they mention how the 2 transmission suppliers fared; is it because they have completely failed that they went with this plan, or did they go with this plan because they thought it was just a better idea? That's something I have been wondering. Also, is this plan set in stone, meaning have they ditched their 2 transmission suppliers, or are they still keeping options open?

siry · 01-31-2008, 06:58 AM

a little bit of clarification - we are no longer simply relying (hoping) that a transmission supplier will deliver us a gearbox. We have been burned twice by this approach and can't put our fate in the hands of a supplier, so we are relying a lot more heavily on our internal powertrain team and other internal resources for development, sourcing and manufacturing of the gearbox. In the town hall meeting, JB told everyone that the design was complete and we were already into prototyping, so this direction was set shortly after the last town hall - so what that means is that we have indeed abandoned the 2-speed design, at least for 2008. It won't make any sense to put big resources behind a 2-speed at this point, except for a few interesting niche projects we might do down the line. Supplementing our internal team is a team from Ricardo Engineering, who have a great deal of experience on high end, demanding gearboxes such as those that were developed for the Bugatti Veyron and the Ford GT. This gives us the added measure of confidence that our design will be sound.

As for Whitestar, Elon firmly stated the we are committed to WhiteStar, that we are well along on the powertrain development, and will be revealing a styling car (non-operational) in the 2nd quarter. Details on our manufacturing plan will be clearer soon, but Elon mentioned in the meeting that we have been pre-qualified on a DOE loan guarantee that could enable us to debt finance the WhiteStar. We were one of a handful of companies considered for this loan guarantee program.

Much much more was shared over the 90 minutes plus of &A and we will post the audio very soon on our website.

tonybelding · 01-31-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siry

we are no longer simply relying (hoping) that a transmission supplier will deliver us a gearbox. We have been burned twice by this approach and can't put our fate in the hands of a supplier, so we are relying a lot more heavily on our internal powertrain team and other internal resources for development, sourcing and manufacturing of the gearbox.

If you want something done right. . .

Iz · 01-31-2008, 08:52 AM

It's always good to get information directly from the source. Nice work on getting the DOE pre-qualification. Would be curious to know what other (if any) car companies have been considered.

2nd quarter can be as late as June 30

-OR- April 1