Martin Eberhard sues Elon Musk and Tesla Motors - Page 8

AnOutsider · 06-14-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

At some point when your project is behind schedule, and costs are too high you start to wonder if further enhancements are really appropriate.

Fair point -- is there a list of all the changes Elon asked for? With that list, we could take a pool on which of the features buyers could have done without in order to get the car faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Lowering the door sill was something that was absolutely required. Elon Musk was right to make that call. It certainly broadened the potential appeal of the Tesla Roadster to middle aged (or older) wealthy guys.

Prime example. the roadster is small enough as it is, I couldn't imagine if it were even more restrictive.

TEG · 06-14-2009, 05:34 PM

There was a long list of debated features. I don't recall them all, but off the top of my head there were the electric door latches, redesigned headlights, seats, lowered door sills, carbon fiber body (instead of fiberglass), leather covered dashboard & two speed transmission. You can probably find discussions about all of that on TM's blogs. I think most agreed they were good ideas, just maybe too much too soon. The attempt at the two speed transmission caused all sorts of headaches. In the end the car apparently cost too much to produce and was delivered late, but it seems that many customers were willing to wait and appreciated what they got when all was said and done.

xcelero.ii · 06-14-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

At some point when your project is behind schedule, and costs are too high you start to wonder if further enhancements are really appropriate.

See, now I thought a lot of the reason costs became high in the first place was mostly to do with ME; and ultimately resulted in his departure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

AnOutsider · 06-14-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcelero.ii

See, now I thought a lot of the reason costs became high in the first place was mostly to do with ME; and ultimately resulted in his departure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know about that... I thought the RUMORS were that his reported costs were much lower than actual costs. If true, he didn't actually cause the price increase so much as under report the actual price

WarpedOne · 06-15-2009, 12:20 AM

See how Elon's version is becoming a truth? Now is excepted that Martin lied? Pathetic.

It is so simple it is not even funny. Elon takes all credit for good ideas, Martin gets all the blame for costs and delays. Can't you see that those ideas were primary source for costs and delays? Especially two speed transmission that turned out impossible. Now, who is really responsible for that? The guy who demanded it (Elon) or the guy that tried his best to make it (Martin)?

malcolm · 06-15-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpedOne

See how Elon's version is becoming a truth? Now is excepted that Martin lied? Pathetic.

It is so simple it is not even funny. Elon takes all credit for good ideas, Martin gets all the blame for costs and delays. Can't you see that those ideas were primary source for costs and delays? Especially two speed transmission that turned out impossible. Now, who is really responsible for that? The guy who demanded it (Elon) or the guy that tried his best to make it (Martin)?

Agreed.

The first few years saw both the establishment of the TEG Tesla Motors - Tesla Leadership and the push for the Whitestar/Models S factory site Tesla Motors - Engineering.

Nothing wrong with ambitious targets, but IMO the Board was steered into demanding early progress on too wide a range of strategic and operational fronts.

What is distasteful is the way in which these missed targets have been used subsequently only to tarnish the reputations of certain individuals.

Calling for changes to door sills, headlights, door handles, transmission etc suggests that Elon was a key "Product Architect" long before he decided to adopt the title officially.

In addition he was a key funder and Board Chairman from April 2004 and yet we are meant to believe that he had little idea of the true development costs (many of which he insisted upon) until mid-late 2007???

AnOutsider · 06-15-2009, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpedOne

See how Elon's version is becoming a truth? Now is excepted that Martin lied? Pathetic.

What's pathetic here? If any of you have inside knowledge, then speak up, otherwise, we're all just speculating. Some, apparently, with less bias than others

vfx · 06-15-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malcolm

The first few years saw both the establishment of the TEG Tesla Motors - Tesla Leadership

Interesting you brought this up. Tesla has now made the selling of battery tech a viable operation but no longer under the TEG title.

Clearly the idea was a good one but was it too soon? Should it have been shut down? Or was it not shut down? I'm guessing that someone (minimally Daimler) approached them about drivetrain implemnetation. Did Tesla have to cobble a stealth TEG group again -or maybe they never went away.

And then there was the "blame".

Lancelac · 06-15-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnOutsider

What's pathetic here? If any of you have inside knowledge, then speak up, otherwise, we're all just speculating. Some, apparently, with less bias than others

I kind of agree with this sentiment. I think the majority have accepted that Elon is always lying and Martin is always truthful. I understand the respect that people have for Martin, both as a person and innovator, but the actual truth is largely unknown. I've been pretty much in the middle thus far, but honestly this lawsuit, and the way it's worded makes me lose a lot of the respect I had for Martin. 90%+ is frivolous and doesn't even concern issues of law. That doesn't mean I "like" Elon or the way he often does business, but that really isn't the issue here for me.

xcelero.ii · 06-15-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancelac

I kind of agree with this sentiment. I think the majority have accepted that Elon is always lying and Martin is always truthful. I understand the respect that people have for Martin, both as a person and innovator, but the actual truth is largely unknown. I've been pretty much in the middle thus far, but honestly this lawsuit, and the way it's worded makes me lose a lot of the respect I had for Martin. 90%+ is frivolous and doesn't even concern issues of law. That doesn't mean I "like" Elon or the way he often does business, but that really isn't the issue here for me.

Agreed!...