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06-29-2009, 10:39 AM
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#221 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 190 | Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOutsider  Is he saying here that ME invested in a struggling ACP and brought about their use of laptop batteries? I thought he came to them after they had already done that and proposed to bring it to market? | DavidV is not the only one. This topic was covered in Tesla's wild ride (pg. 2) - Jul. 10, 2008 Quote:
... Though the tzero could go 0 to 60 mph in 4.1 seconds, it was loaded to the gills with 1,000 pounds of lead-acid batteries, so its range was limited to 60 or so miles of driving.
At the time, AC Propulsion was struggling to keep its lights on, so Eberhard proposed a deal: In exchange for a $150,000 investment, he wanted Cocconi to try powering the tzero with thousands of lithium ion laptop batteries, which were lighter and had six times more energy per pound than the lead-acid variety. (It was an easy sell: Cocconi was already experimenting with lithium ion.)
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06-29-2009, 11:53 AM
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#222 | | P463 Model S
Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 393 | If that were the case, then siry's mentioning of ACP as the beginners of the trend would be inaccurate no? Basically ME's idea is what ACP used for the T-Zero so that would basically make him the grandfather of that idea in that particular situation.
It would also mean that whether they had to redo Martin's work or not, he DID bring the base idea (well, expedite its use), which is commodity Li ion cells | |
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06-29-2009, 01:09 PM
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#223 | | Mostly water
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 310 | Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOutsider Is he saying here that ME invested in a struggling ACP and brought about their use of laptop batteries? I thought he came to them after they had already done that and proposed to bring it to market? | I'm not trying to say "I told you so" (really, I'm not...), but I did mention this in post #164 on this thread... http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/31396-post164.html
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06-29-2009, 01:21 PM
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#224 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 190 | Quote:
Originally Posted by AnOutsider If that were the case, then siry's mentioning of ACP as the beginners of the trend would be inaccurate no? | I would not necessarily reach that conclusion. If by "trend" you mean "idea", then his statement: Quote: |
... that neither Martin Eberhard or Elon Musk came up with the idea of an electric sportscar [sic] with excellent range and amazing acceleration
| appears to be "technically" true. On the other hand, the following statement: Quote: |
AC Propulsion developed the idea, and both Eberhard and Musk initially approached the San Dimas, California, company to build the car. Tom Gage and Alan Cocconi had built the t zero, which is essentially the prototypical Tesla Roadster with a 0-60 time of 3.6 seconds and a range of more than 200 miles using commodity lithium-ion cells.
| Omits the history (at least the "version" that is documented) behind incorporating commodity li-ion cells into t-zero prototype. Quote: |
It would also mean that whether they had to redo Martin's work or not, he DID bring the base idea (well, expedite its use), which is commodity Li ion cells
| We are in agreement here. In fact, I would be curious to know how large of a factor this was in EM's decision to fund ME and MT's venture versus starting his own, which seems to be more typical of him.
Last edited by Serge; 06-29-2009 at 01:28 PM..
Reason: expanded with an additional thought.
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06-29-2009, 01:36 PM
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#225 | | P463 Model S
Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 393 | Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris H. | Indeed you did. I think I glossed over that as a couple of the posts surrounding yours didn't look familiar either. Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge We are in agreement here. In fact, I would be curious to know how large of a factor this was in EM's decision to fund ME and MT's venture versus starting his own, which seems to be more typical of him. | Probably much, but maybe moreso the fact that ME had the idea and technical know-how too. By his own admission EM was busy with SpaceX and left most of the Tesla day-to-day to ME. I wonder if a proper CEO or CFO had been hired and ME has been left to tinker if things would've gone smoother and EM and ME would still get along today.
It seems a lot of the animosity came about when it was "discovered" that ME had made some mistakes as CEO. Ah if time could be rewound. | |
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06-29-2009, 01:42 PM
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#226 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 109 | Re: the idea for using commodity li-ion cells for the t-zero - I researched that point when I wrote the piece for Wired and ACP sources told me directly that it was their idea and that they had already been experimenting with li-ion commodity cells. They said Martin's investment helped them implement it, but the idea was theirs. | |
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06-29-2009, 02:21 PM
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#227 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6 | For those who missed the irony here - Siry takes great pains in his article to highlight that titles don't really matter. But, in the same piece he annoints himself as the former "Chief Marketing Officer" of Tesla -- a title that he never held. Siry's last title at Tesla was SVP of Sales, Marketing & Service. Could you provide an explanation of your use of titles, Darryl? | |
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06-29-2009, 03:54 PM
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#228 | | Roadster Sport 553
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 986 | Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerred For those who missed the irony here - Siry takes great pains in his article to highlight that titles don't really matter. But, in the same piece he annoints himself as the former "Chief Marketing Officer" of Tesla -- a title that he never held. Siry's last title at Tesla was SVP of Sales, Marketing & Service. Could you provide an explanation of your use of titles, Darryl? | Who cares about titles? You can give yourself whatever title you want. That and $4 will get you a latte at Starbucks.
I don't doubt Darryl Siry having multiple titles. SVP and Chief of whatever is a fairly common dual title to have. The regular VPs are not CTO, CIO, CFO or COO or a C level title. It is common for a C level executive to also be a senior vice president within the corporate structure.
It is common for the CFO to also have a title of SVP of Finance.
It is common for the CIO/CTO to also have a title of Senior Vice President of Technology (or Information or both).
The titles that people use are just marketing for your resume.
Last edited by James; 06-29-2009 at 08:18 PM..
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06-29-2009, 05:27 PM
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#229 | | Mostly water
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 310 | AnOutsider,
I don't know if you've had the opportunity to read the whole Fortune Magazine article referenced by Serge ("Tesla's Wild Ride"), but it is certainly worth reading if you have the time. Tesla's wild ride - Jul. 10, 2008
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Don't forget about the real world...
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06-29-2009, 06:05 PM
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#230 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 109 | @rogerred here's my explanation:
"CMO" has 3 letters.
"SVP Global Sales, Marketing and Service" has 33 letters and is very unwieldy.
If CMO were somehow a bigger role than my actual role, you might have something, but its not.
And in any case, I agree with James. Who cares? | |
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