Tesla town hall meetings - Jan 26 & 27, 2009 - Page 4

dpeilow · 01-28-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDB

Yep, nice review. I wouldn't sleep too well knowing all the deposits are at risk if Tesla goes under.

No, I literally meant I can sleep now. It was quite late over here

Looks like others have been reading this:

Tesla town hall meeting: details on price increases, Model S, Daimler Smart car

Quote:

Musk dispelled concerns that customers who opt not to purchase the heavy-duty home charger would be stuck with the measly 32-hour mobile charger. He said the standard charger will be a 220V “overnight” device capable of filling the batteries in 8 hours.

As previously noted, the 220V 70A unit, capable of charging the batteries in 3.5 hours, is now a $3,000 option. When asked by a customer why the device is so expensive, Musk said it is “very low production volume and ridiculously expensive.” He went on to say Tesla will “work to reduce that.”

He said Tesla is considering offering a faster charger later this year that would be capable of juicing up the batteries in 45 minutes. It would require 440 volts at roughly 160 amps — a power level exceeding what a typical home electrical connecting is capable of offering. A 45 minute charge is the fastest the current batteries will allow. (Some battery firms are said to be producing cells capable of 10 minute charges, but Tesla has yet to say whether it plans to start using such batteries.)

I'd like to know what is driving the need for the 45 minute charger to be outboard and if current, where the threshold is (my personal preference would be to hook up to any CEEform / IEC 309 socket, even the 400V 125A sort).

Interesting, and not a surprise, that the $12k buys an identical battery to today's. I wonder if those cells will still be in production then?

Tesla announces Model S Concept, explains price hikes in town hall meeting - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

Quote:

But that's not stopping the company from moving ahead with its product development plans, with the debut of a concept version of the Model S hybrid sedan slated for March.

grr

doug · 01-28-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

This sort-of contradicts what Doug just said.

But, if we consider 1.2 and 2.0 as two different things, then it would make more sense that 2.0 could come later and 1.2 could be the cost reduced drivetrain for 2009.

"Version 2" will be ready "by June" which is in time for the 2009MY cars. ("1.2" was likely an off the cuff remark and he probably actually meant to say something more like 1.6.)

The drivetrain including the water cooled motor, which has been referred to publicly as DT 2.0, will not be in the Roadster until the next redesign. Remember, however, that the 2010MY is supposed to start this fall.

Kevin Harney · 01-28-2009, 09:11 AM

Yes I am reading that 1.2 is actually 1.6 and is small cost improvements over 1.5. I am also taking from this that 2.0 will be the water cooled version with greater capabilities and will be available in the Model S from the start and will be available in the next gen of Roadsters ( probably coming out shortly after the model S hits the roads which will be just over 2-3 years from now and about the time they suggested. How does that sum it up ?!?!?!?

TEG · 01-28-2009, 09:15 AM

Yeah, that's my take as well. Although we have to ignore what we assume is some mis-information, and/or mis-quotes to come to that conclusion.

Tdave · 01-28-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

Yeah, that's my take as well. Although we have to ignore what we assume is some mis-information, and/or mis-quotes to come to that conclusion.

How so? What Kevin said is the gist of what I heard Elon say at yesterday's meeting.

NEWDL · 01-28-2009, 09:56 AM

Anyone find it interesting that the frame and powertrain of the Model S is going to be somewhat of a rolling chassis for other bodies to the placed into? (Elon stated during Menlo Park meeting)

This is great for economies of scale in terms of production...at first I thought it would be hard for demand to sustain the numbers Tesla was quoting for the Model S but with many variations...demand may exceed the production capabilities.

TEG · 01-28-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesla Dave

powertrain 2.0 primary goal is cost reduction
also iterating motor design, battery refinements, but changes are small
really should be called powertrain 1.2 (should he have said 1.6?)
true next generation is what they're doing for Daimler
water cooled

The above can be read as "powertrain 2.0 really should be called 1.2 since it is a minor refinement". This implies that the (water cooled) next gen (for Daimler) is not called "2.0". Previously we though that "2.0" referred to the Model 'S' (and perhaps Daimler) drivetrain under development.

But it isn't just your quote that is confusing.

This link talking about the Roadster Sport said "This new powertrain will be the same one used by Model S" which is one of the bits of mis-information that I plan to ignore now.

Putting it another way, I gather that the Daimler and Model S powertrains will be water cooled as well as some future Roadster (in 3 years or so).
All of the 2009 Roadsters (base, sport, EU) will continue with an air cooled eMotor, right? Some minor adjustments to the 2008 eMotor design are in store for 2009. We have the confirmed sport variant with more power and efficiency as well as recent reports of cost reductions (possibly only for the base version?)

Tdave · 01-28-2009, 10:07 AM

OK, I see the confusion. Tonight I'll listen again to that part of the meeting and see what I can figure out.

Tdave · 01-28-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tesla Dave

Deposits not returned if Tesla goes out of business. Become unsecured creditors of liquidated company.

I was troubled hearing this, and now a bit confused. Legally, it is what I would expect. However I also remember Elon a couple months ago saying he would personally guarantee and stand behind the deposits. This was widely reported in the press. I think it was late Oct or Nov when the reports about Tesla low on cash were circulating and a few weeks before they got their $40M funding round, and I'm guessing probably were concerned about customers panicking about their deposits.

Tdave · 01-28-2009, 10:21 AM

Found it. Here's one article:

Elon Musk to bail out Tesla Motors with own money

Quote:

Reuters quotes Musk as saying last night:

"I am personally standing behind delivering the cars and the deposits for the company.

"I have the means and wherewithal to do so. So people should have absolutely zero concern about their deposit."