DDB

Yep, nice review. I wouldn't sleep too well knowing all the deposits are at risk if Tesla goes under. How difficult would it be to put it in an escrow account? Damn good thing early adopters pave the way for us chickens.

__________________
Dave

'05 Passat powered by Biodiesel
'54 Corvette

Grin

Dave does this mean you would have to get a new tesla or could a current owner upgrade?

doug

Thanks for the write-ups, guys. It looks like most of my questions at least got touched upon.

I think the issue was that it might not be worth the cost to upgrade your Tesla. That you'd be better off selling it and buying a new one when that feature becomes available. I guess things will be more clear when the audio becomes available.

no96

"possible, but probably not worth it, sell your roadster and buy a new one " or words to that effect.
The charger requires 400V so is not for your house, but for public charging stations.

TEG

Eek! Reality was worse than the rumor.


OK, so I think things may have changed since the early days of powertrain 2.0 plans.
I think early "Whitestar" (Model S) talked off more powerful/beefier eMotor, possibly liquid cooled, with option for two variants with different power output.
OK, so I gather it is time to forget everything I thought I knew about powertrain 2.0. It sounds like they are reusing that name for a different project to lower the costs on the Roadster motor.
Hmm. So the Daimler deal is more than just battery packs for the Smart program. I gather what was the original DT2.0 program is now part of that new project.

So, I guess that answer is something like this:
2008 eMotor = DT 1.5
2009 base motor = DT "1.2" (similar specs to 1.5 but costs less to make)

Will the "sport' motor be based off of DT1.5 or DT1.2? (I suppose it doesn't matter too much).
But what of "EU Roadster"? Does it also use DT1.2?
And what of 'Model S'? DT1.2? 2.0? (Guess we have to wait for March 5 to start asking)

I think everyone basically assumed that, but to see it stated so bluntly is spooky. Hopefully it never comes to that.

Bradleybang

Good summary Tesla Dave.

some additional notes

I asked afterward and was told the fast charger could work in the current roadster battery.

They are hoping to change the connector also in the next year or two.

The Tesla website should have some changes in the next day.

The DT2.0 (1.2) is not for the current roadster including 2009-10. It will only be integrated in next roadster redesign.

The sport is more of a perfomance tweak to motor-DT-shocks-stabalizers

TEG

Sorry to belabor the drivetrain so much.

So, I will guess/assume the following now:

2009 base US roadster will probably have the same DT1.5 as the 2008 model.
2009 base EU roadster will also use DT1.5 (report of 300+ bhp was probably wrong)
2009 Sport model will likely use DT1.5+ (DT1.5 with eMotor tweak) (report of "same drivetrain as Model S" was probably wrong)
Will Sport upgrade be available to both US and EU customers?

Some bits of the original DT2.0 program seem to have morphed into DT1.2 to go into the SmartE. Model S and some future redesigned version of the Roadster will probably get the full DT2.0 in a few years.

Thats the best I could do giving the bits of info. Still not 100% clear yet.

doug

As I understand it, drivetrain "version 2" is how they've been referring to it internally and the name is "a bit of an exaggeration." It's an incremental step from the current Roadster drivetrain 1.5 with the goal of reducing cost. How it affects performance is still a bit of open question, however, and probably could use some further clarificaition from Tesla. I believe it is intended for 2009MY cars.

Proper DT 2.0 as it applies to Model S involves more significant changes, including a liquid cooled motor. I suppose the labels could change by the time the Model S comes out.

doug

Apparently the details of the $12K battery deal are still being worked out. But as suspected, the basic idea is that you pay $12K now, and in 7 years you get a battery pack that is equivalent to the pack that is delivered with the car. There's some talk about what if you want new a battery before 7 years, in which case your $12K would be used as some kind of credit or the cost of a new battery would be somehow prorated. We'll likely get more well defined info soon.


One thing I haven't heard about in further detail is the 240V mobile charger.

TEG

This sort-of contradicts what Doug just said.

But, if we consider 1.2 and 2.0 as two different things, then it would make more sense that 2.0 could come later and 1.2 could be the cost reduced drivetrain for 2009.

I am guessing that SmartE would require less power than the Roadster (don't want to overload the chassis or the smaller battery pack), and they could use more than Roadster power for the much heavier 'Model S' so there might be more variations then just those 2.

So, I am not sure if 2009 Roadsters get carryover DT1.5 just like 2008s, or if they get some sort of cost reduced DT1.2 variation with performance similar to DT1.5

Also, SmartE might get some sort of "mini 1.2" with the latest cost reduction improvements, but perhaps not as powerful as the Roadster motor.

Again, just speculation here based on trying to read between the lines.

By the way, I don't consider 'cost reduced' a negative. Frequently 2nd gen stuff costs less to make, but is actually better. The 2nd gen Prius Synergy drive cost less to make but was much better than the 1st gen. Typically engineers are improving and cost reducing at the same time.