CARB to weaken ZEV?

malcolm · 03-24-2008, 04:44 PM

Meeting this Thursday, or possibly Friday depending on the agenda.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=58

doug · 03-24-2008, 05:29 PM

Could someone briefly explain what the current ZEV mandate is or point me to a succinct resource? I thought it was already loosened a while back (as part of the reason GM killed the EV1).

Alpine Driver · 03-24-2008, 06:25 PM

The whitepaper on Ze´evs blog points out a few new facts (to me):

it says "more than 1000 reservations today" (official spoke was "more than 900" till now).

And it mentions a 4hr home-recharge (compared to the 3.5h figure)

The top-speed figure 120mph also differs from the communicated 125mph ??

TEG · 03-24-2008, 07:02 PM

The reservations keep rolling in...

The 3.5 hour recharge didn't seem possible if you did the numbers for a totally empty to totally full pack and considered in all the inefficiencies and extra power draw for temperature control. Still most home charges will be way under 3 hours because most people won't run the pack all the way down.
(Most people don't drive 200+ miles every day).

I was expecting the top speed to drop in drivetrain 1.5 because the gearing is going to be between the (old) 1st and 2nd, and they can only raise the redline a little bit with the new PEM and better cooling.

Still, I think the slow drop in top speed (135->130->125->120) we have seen is a small price to pay for the improved simplicity and reliability as well as the thought that you are never, ever in the wrong gear. Driving over 120mph on the street is a terrible idea. The Tesla Roadster is not a track car in its' current form. Even if the original 2 speed transmission idea was reliable, I still would have picked "drivetrain 1.5" (more torque, no shifting, and reduced top speed) in a heartbeat.

TEG · 03-24-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

Could someone briefly explain what the current ZEV mandate is or point me to a succinct resource? I thought it was already loosened a while back (as part of the reason GM killed the EV1).

To ZEV or not to ZEV

California's Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate - Linking Clean Fuel Cars, Carsharing, and Station Car Strategies

It seems each time they meet they "water down" the old mandate.
(Water being fuel cell emissions)

TEG · 03-24-2008, 10:08 PM

Board Meeting Comments Log

http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/ma/2008/08-3-5pres.pdf

BBHighway · 03-25-2008, 05:29 AM

Some very interesting comments. I just read the one from Volkswagen, and they are against mandates for BEVs.

They complain that the mandate would force them to divert R&D from hydrogen to BEVs. But that's exactly what they should do, regardless of the mandate. The bulk of their clean R&D should go into technology that was proven to work 10 years ago, not in something that might work 30 years from now!

I don't live in CA, so I don't really have a say in this. Still, my state is one of those that tends to follow what CA does, so maybe I should.

I still think high gas prices sre what will finally give BEVs the push they need to go mainstream.

vfx · 03-25-2008, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBHighway

I don't live in CA, so I don't really have a say in this. Still, my state is one of those that tends to follow what CA does, so maybe I should.

Absolutely!

Not only if your State follow CA but even if you want Electric cars to succeed. (You are here so that must be true).

So goes California, so goes the entire world. Other countries adapt these guidelines.

And the point of having the carmakers actually produce the hyped concept cars is what will open the floodgates that will make EVs available to everyone.

DDB · 03-25-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBHighway

I don't live in CA, so I don't really have a say in this. Still, my state is one of those that tends to follow what CA does, so maybe I should.

I still think high gas prices sre what will finally give BEVs the push they need to go mainstream.

I emailed the Gov and CARB, and don't live in CA. But I'm sure some of your federal dollars go to road upkeep and you've probably visited--or will. So you mise will state your opinion. As much as I can't stand government interference, for all the places government meddles in the gasser industry, why the hell shouldn't they meddle in the EV industry? Honda, GM, Toyota, etc. have no problem lobbying for credits for their hybrids and such when it helps them sell units...but when it comes to actually producing a vehicle that is truly gas free, now they bitch. And the funny thing about this is that I am of the opinion that the industry will be HELPED because the public wants to buy ZEVs, whether industry realizes it or not. My logic doesn't exactly follow, but this fight should have been over the first time, just like the Iraq war.

Alpine Driver · 03-25-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

The reservations keep rolling in...

Still, I think the slow drop in top speed (135->130->125->120) we have seen is a small price to pay for the improved simplicity and reliability as well as the thought that you are never, ever in the wrong gear. Driving over 120mph on the street is a terrible idea. The Tesla Roadster is not a track car in its' current form. Even if the original 2 speed transmission idea was reliable, I still would have picked "drivetrain 1.5" (more torque, no shifting, and reduced top speed) in a heartbeat.

TEG,

I agree with you that it is not so important if a car can do 125mph or 120mph. I am only surprised as 120mph might not be well suitable for marketing purposes - for the european market. If I follow marketing on the tesla homepage, they do mainly marketing in facts & figures.
120mph = 193,12kmh
125mph = 201,17kmh
So only 125mph specification can "hit the wall" and do the marketing "Topspeed: 200kmh" thing in european advertising. A topspeed of 193kmh would be rather ok; but is far more difficult to communicate ;-)
Typical left lane speed (not by law, but in real life) on the highway in my country is between 150kmh and 160kmh - eqal 100mph. So the roadster is pretty in range.