Vaporware and Prototypes

vfx · 11-10-2007, 12:20 PM

The images of the Fisker hybrid are dripping with beauty.

The thing is, right now, it only exists in a virtual environment. It’s easy to make pixels look good. At the upcoming Detroit Auto Show we are promised a three dimensional real-world object.

The Volt I saw at a California Show did not even run. The interior was non-existent below the dashboard (like it had been filled with a solidified fluid). The videos of the running Volt show that it is a noisy clunker that goes about 20 mph.

Likely the Eco-Chic will be similarly mechanically configured. Styling studies and concept cars

Here is why Tesla is different.
Even though Tesla tipped their hand at a Debut in July of last year, at least they had a full on kick ass running prototype. These manufacturer’s announcements are populated with pretty pictures, Styling studies, concept cars and Mules.

To date Tesla still has not produced a customer car, but we have seen 20 amazing vehicles buzzing around proving the concept is real. Who else can step up?

tonybelding · 11-10-2007, 01:38 PM

Although I mostly agree with you, and I think Tesla is more on top of the game than just about anybody else right now. . . it's not entirely clear-cut.

Venturi, Phoenix, Commuter Cars and UEV have all shown working prototypes.

Miles probably have multiple prototypes of the Javlon which they simply haven't shown to the public yet.

Although you make fun of the Chevy Volt, please remember its slated for production some time later than the Tesla "White Star", and we haven't seen anything on that. You're looking at something very early in development and saying, "Man it doesn't even run!" But one could say it doesn't run simply because it's very early in development. That's the downside of too much transparency and openness.

Fisker are also aiming for a similar time slot, along with the WhiteStar and Volt. And again, we've seen more of the Fisker than we have of the WhiteStar.

In the short run I think T-Rex is very close to shipping product, much closer than most people are aware. Understand that it has been in development for a while now, it's based on an existing gas-powered vehicle, T-Rex themselves are the manufacturers of that existing vehicle, and it only has to meet motorcycle safety regulations. I think they were held up by their corporate change in ownership and restructuring, but they are coming out of that mess now. If it hadn't been for that, they probably would have been shipping to customers before now.

vfx · 11-10-2007, 04:49 PM

OK I guess I should specify US release.

Venturi is not US compliant and besides they ae limiting production to 25 cars that's not a real car. Tesla up to 20 already. If they were to sell them and not crash em' they would nearly be at Venturi's entire run.

Pheonix
You are probably right about Pheonix. I have seen 2 running prototypes and they too have delayed until next year http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08...at-least-2008/ and I won't mention the cost of the cars.

Commutercars
I can't count any car that comes as a KIT. http://www.commutercars.com/

UEV
hmm. the jury is out on them. They act like a kit car as I have followed them for many years. We have learned a lot about crash testing from Tesla and we have learned the EVs have special requirements. Since each crash cost Tesla $500K (300 for car + 200 for the service) I can see why it's a big deal for a tiny car company to get front, back, and side collisions approved. I would think UEV would at least post this. http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/

Miles
Is making NEVs http://www.milesautomotive.com/index_ie.php Is a real car coming from them?

tonybelding · 11-10-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfx

OK I guess I should specify US release.

Venturi is not US compliant and besides they ae limiting production to 25 cars that's not a real car. Tesla up to 20 already. If they were to sell them and not crash em' they would nearly be at Venturi's entire run.

Are you sure Venturi haven't been building and crashing test vehicles? At $400,000 per car sold, they might be able to afford it. That's assuming they manage to sell all 25 "production" cars, which I don't see happening yet.

Quote:

Commutercars
I can't count any car that comes as a KIT. http://www.commutercars.com/

The classic Caterham Seven is sold in the USA as a kit, as a means of dodging the more annoying and costly regulations.

Fresh update on Commuter Cars here: http://www.tri-cityherald.com/tch/lo...-9356231c.html

Quote:

Miles
Is making NEVs http://www.milesautomotive.com/index_ie.php Is a real car coming from them?

The Javlon XS500, from what I gather, will be made in China and is derived from an existing Chinese car. Four doors, very conservative looks, 80+ MPH, 120+ miles range, Li-ion battery.

Cobos · 11-11-2007, 04:00 AM

Looking at how most other chinese cars doesn't seem to understand the concept of crumpling zones I would really like to see this car run through EuroNCAPs testsuite. If it gets decent amount of stars there I might beleive it has better safetyfeatures than the possible Whitestar. And therin lies the problem for the Whitestar as people seeing how a electric sedan has crap safety features they might draw the conclusion it's because it's electric.
So as you can see I'm very sceptical about the XS500 until it has been properly tested and they at least are willing to list specs, does it have Anti-spinn feature, non-locking brakes?

Cobos

TEG · 11-11-2007, 10:23 AM

How real is the Zap 'Alias' ???

YouTube Video

TEG · 11-11-2007, 10:27 AM

How real is the Zap-X ???

Google Video

Kardax · 11-12-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybelding

Miles probably have multiple prototypes of the Javlon which they simply haven't shown to the public yet.

I wouldn't count on that. For a short period after they launched their new website, the XS500 had a clutch pedal and a tailpipe. In other words, they were showing a Hafei Saibao (the car the XS500 is based on). I guess they heard me complain about that and Photoshopped them out less than 24 hours later. I still have the original photos somewhere though :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfx

UEV
hmm. the jury is out on them. They act like a kit car as I have followed them for many years. We have learned a lot about crash testing from Tesla and we have learned the EVs have special requirements. Since each crash cost Tesla $500K (300 for car + 200 for the service) I can see why it's a big deal for a tiny car company to get front, back, and side collisions approved. I would think UEV would at least post this.

UEV has no money and no vision. The fact that their mediocre "Spyder" was unveiled 6 months after the Tesla Roadster is an obvious example of this. I don't expect anything of significance to come from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

How real is the Zap 'Alias' ???

It's about as real as a 3D model. It'll never be physically real unless ZAP can convince of their Chinese partners to build it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

How real is the Zap-X ???

That's a trick question. ZAP always shows photos of the Lotus APX (aluminum performance crossover) concept and calls it the ZAP-X.

I don't think anyone has ever seen a "real" ZAP-X, even in 3D.

-Ryan

doug · 06-17-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

How real is the Zap 'Alias' ???

Supposedly there is now a prototype.

ZAP Alias prototype built; the Obvio disappears - AutoblogGreen

Kardax · 06-17-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

Supposedly there is now a prototype.

A non-powered prototype. A rolling box, basically.

Maybe I'm just too cynical, but this "milestone" totally fails to impress me.

If Tesla's WhiteStar "prototype" is also just a rolling box, I'll be a little more forgiving since they've proven they can build a high-performance EV. ZAP has a lot more work to do before they'll get any support from me.

-Ryan