<![CDATA[Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum - Future Cars]]> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/ Discussion about Future Cars from Tesla Motors en Wed, 19 Jun 2013 04:35:15 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/images/misc/rss.png <![CDATA[Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum - Future Cars]]> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/ GEN3 Signature Reservation: How much, will you do it and what makes it worthwhile? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17972-GEN3-Signature-Reservation-How-much-will-you-do-it-and-what-makes-it-worthwhile?goto=newpost Mon, 17 Jun 2013 00:45:14 GMT While everyone waits 2-3 years before being able to make a Gen3 reservation I thought the following questions would be interesting to discuss: How... While everyone waits 2-3 years before being able to make a Gen3 reservation I thought the following questions would be interesting to discuss:

How much will it cost for a Signature reservation?
-Since Elon has said the Gen3 will cost about half the cost of a MS I'll go with $20k.

How many?
Just a wild guess. 1,500 in North America, 750 in Europe, 500 in Asia and maybe by then 250 in South America.

Will you be placing a Signature reservation and why?
-Put me in the maybe category. Mostly to get an early delivery date but that will largely depend on Tesla's ramp up and the projected delivery timeline.
And I'm hoping there may be some other extras that make it worthwhile.

There was a lengthy discussion thread on the Model S and many said they wouldn't do a Signature reservation again.
So maybe we can give Tesla some ideas so they will make it worthwhile to make a Signature reservation for the Gen3. ]]> Future Cars aronth5 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17972-GEN3-Signature-Reservation-How-much-will-you-do-it-and-what-makes-it-worthwhile <![CDATA[Design News - Tesla to Produce 'Affordable EV' by 2016]]> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17847-Design-News-Tesla-to-Produce-Affordable-EV-by-2016?goto=newpost Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:31:41 GMT Design News - Tesla to Produce 'Affordable EV' by 2016

Quote:
Tesla Motors plans to roll out a “compelling, affordable electric car” that will sell for about half the price of its high-profile Model S by the end of 2016, company chairman Elon Musk said last week.

“We definitely need to be able to bring a lower cost car to market,” Musk said at the company’s recent annual shareholders’ meeting. “Hopefully, in about three to four years we will be able to do that.”

Musk’s statement was consistent with past comments. In 2012, he predicted that half of all cars on the road would be fully electric within 12 to 15 years. Last week, he added that an affordable EV “has really been my goal since the start of Tesla.”
Nothing terribly new here, except that Musk's vision is being more widely disseminated. ]]> Future Cars Doug_G http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17847-Design-News-Tesla-to-Produce-Affordable-EV-by-2016 Battery chemistry and Gen 3 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17812-Battery-chemistry-and-Gen-3?goto=newpost Tue, 11 Jun 2013 07:05:41 GMT I remember extensive discussions (last summer?) about Tesla's bending toward battery chemistry that puts emphasis on storage capacity rather than power output. My recollection is that there's a limit on that endeavor to achieve the performance goals (especially in the P85 and P85+).

Assumptions
1. Gen 3 is 25% volume scale-down of Model S.
2. Gen 3 has similar (maybe identical?) Cd.
3. Weight scale-down is 25% or more.
4. Minimum range of 200 EPA 5-cycle.
5. Acceleration of 0-60mph comparable to Model S 60 kWh (5.9 sec).

Questions
A. Using what is publicly known or "comfortably assumed" as available to Tesla today at "production levels" and with "reasonable pricing", are there battery chemistries that satisfy all 5 assumptions at once?
B. Does the battery volume and weight scale down similarly to 1 and 3, or disproportionately with the rest of the car?
C. From production cost alone (not design, no software development, no assembly line retrofitting, etc.), how would such a vehicle compare cost-wise to Model S 60 kWh?

I'm curious to see what "educated guessing" and "napkin calculations" conclude on this one. ]]> Future Cars brianman http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17812-Battery-chemistry-and-Gen-3 Should the Gen 3 have a nose cone? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17792-Should-the-Gen-3-have-a-nose-cone?goto=newpost Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:36:09 GMT Some like it, some don't like it, and some are just fine with it. What say you? ]]> Future Cars ipdamages http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17792-Should-the-Gen-3-have-a-nose-cone Should the Gen 3 to be a smaller version of the Model S but otherwise identical? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17791-Should-the-Gen-3-to-be-a-smaller-version-of-the-Model-S-but-otherwise-identical?goto=newpost Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:28:59 GMT In light of Elon's comments that the Gen 3 is going to be similar to the Model S, only 10% smaller, do you think the Model S exterior is otherwise perfect as is for Gen 3 purposes, or would you prefer that it be more sporty/aggressive, or less sporty/aggressive? ]]> Future Cars ipdamages http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17791-Should-the-Gen-3-to-be-a-smaller-version-of-the-Model-S-but-otherwise-identical Is kWh a good measure for battery capacity? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17744-Is-kWh-a-good-measure-for-battery-capacity?goto=newpost Sun, 09 Jun 2013 15:00:28 GMT Yeah, I know it is a standard way of doing it, but is it good? Good in a way that TM advertises 60 kWh and 85 kWh versions and the confusion that... Yeah, I know it is a standard way of doing it, but is it good?

Good in a way that TM advertises 60 kWh and 85 kWh versions and the confusion that at least 3/4 ob Model S owners share.
They are a bit familiar with kW from ICE world (don't really know what it means). They now see kWh and don't know what to do with extra h they forget about it and go saying they have a 60 kW model S.

60 kW ICE car is a P*O*S people mover not a luxury car. Yes they are wrong, but that doesn't stop them misrepresenting their car in the eyes of others who know sh*t of physics and cars.
Oh, you have 60 kW? Meh, I have 200 kW!

Yes, advertising batteries in terms of their rated range would be even worse. What would be much better is representing the capacity in the right unit - Joules.

60 kWh battery should be advertised as 216 MJ battery and 85 kWh battery should be advertised as 306 MJ battery. When someone would ask what MJ stands for they could answer it stands for MegaJoules, millions of joules, millions!

Such advertising/designation would be
1. completely right from physics point of view (kWh is also),
2. they would not give misrepresentation hammer into the hands of joe shmoe (as they do with using kWh)
3. and mega is waaay better then mere kilos of whatever

If they don't want to switch kWh for MJ, they could at least stop differentiating between them on kWh. Call the 60 kWh basic battery, and 85 kWh range battery or something similar.

These 60 kW Model S sh*t must stop BEFORE they move to GenIII. ]]> Future Cars WarpedOne http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17744-Is-kWh-a-good-measure-for-battery-capacity <![CDATA[Thoughts on Self-Driving Cars...From a Car Enthusiast's Perspective.]]> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17678-Thoughts-on-Self-Driving-Cars-From-a-Car-Enthusiast-s-Perspective?goto=newpost Fri, 07 Jun 2013 16:36:34 GMT I am somewhat torn on the prospect of self-driving cars. With the ubiquity of mobile devices has come an exponential increase in driver distraction,... I am somewhat torn on the prospect of self-driving cars. With the ubiquity of mobile devices has come an exponential increase in driver distraction, which I witness on a daily basis in manifold forms. (i.e. not going when light turns green, drifting in lane, driving too slowly, etc.) so for those drivers, I'd welcome a more predictable, computer-controlled driving experience. There are also times when I'd enjoy a little respite from taking the helm and letting HAL do the driving for me (i.e. commuting, stop-and-go traffic) but I don't think, and I hope that auto-pilot will not be the default function, at least for quite a while to come.

Personally, one thing that attracts me to Tesla vehicles in particular is that they're NOT appliance-like, but emotive, stylish, engaging, and dynamic. I certainly understand the logistical and pragmatic benefits of self-driving cars, and unlike some others in the auto enthusiast community, don't fear or loathe the ascent of EVs and the gradual decline of ICE engines. BUT....I hope the love of driving, and the adrenaline rush it can provide is not fully lost in the transition. ]]> Future Cars igotzzoom http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17678-Thoughts-on-Self-Driving-Cars-From-a-Car-Enthusiast-s-Perspective <![CDATA[Gen 3: "A strong family resemblance [to the Model S]"]]> http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17658-Gen-3-quot-A-strong-family-resemblance-to-the-Model-S-quot?goto=newpost Thu, 06 Jun 2013 18:33:47 GMT In the annual meeting earlier this week Elon also said that that the Gen 3 will be "in a lot of ways a smaller version of the Model S, at half the price."
2013 Shareholder Meeting | Tesla Motors at 31:30-31:45

There was a direct question asked at 54:30, to which Elon provided the following answer (excerpts):

"So, with the third generation vehicle, we expect it to be 'in family' with the Model S, so you'll see, like, a sort of strong family resemblance."

"But with that third generation, we want to try to think of some interesting things we can do that go beyond simply scaling down the Model S and scaling up volume. We haven't thought of anything really big right now."

"If we get lucky, maybe we can incorporate some of the auto-pilot or self-driving elements into that vehicle."

With this and the comments about comparisons to the 3-series and A4, I think that ideas of a significant departure from the Model S aren't likely to be implemented (e.g., little hatchbacks, substantially different body style...). That isn't to say that different body styles won't be offered (e.g., a shooting brake), but I don't think we are looking at a "fresh sheet of paper" on body style. At the risk of covering the same ground as other threads, what suggestions do we have for the Gen 3 with this in mind?

For example, as regards body style, I have suggested a little more aggressive curve at the wheels. This is potentially a bit at tension with the aero criterion.

Looking at the Aston Martin Vanquish, Vantage, and Rapide (top to bottom in the combo-pic below), I view them to be similar in body style, but the Vanquish has a bit more curve around the hips/wheels. The Rapide is more like the Vantage, albeit in a larger, 4-door body.

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I posit that these three cars are all "in family," but I prefer a Vanquish to the Vantage or Rapide bodies. What do you folks think?

The main difference I see is that today there is a common body style trend in having the car start low, with a hood that isn't far above the top of the front tire, and rise as you travel to the back of the car the top of the car is close to a foot higher than the top of the tire. Extreme examples of this are seen in the Prius, but it is very common today. Automakers also tend to have the door handles at this angle. Here are a few cars with this look.

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The Model S has this too, to some extent, though it definitely has more curve to it than the Prius, Cruze, and C Class directly above.

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So to me, making the Gen 3 more of a Vanquish than a Vantage would be a good thing, and I don't undertand it to be necessary to have the wedge design, without curves at the fenders/wheels, to keep a car's cost down or sell a car to the mass market.

As regards other things that can be done while maintaining a family resemblance and being recognizable as a Tesla, I view this to really be an exterior question, so I'm not getting into interior questions, though I don't own a Model S, so I'm not sure that I have a basis for suggestions, and I think there are several other places on TMC where people have made suggestions on the interior. I also won't get into the nose cone, as I think there is a pretty clear record on how people feel on that issue.

So what do you folks think?
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]]> Future Cars ipdamages http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17658-Gen-3-quot-A-strong-family-resemblance-to-the-Model-S-quot GenIII - who gets the driving violation ticket for the driverless car tech? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17588-GenIII-who-gets-the-driving-violation-ticket-for-the-driverless-car-tech?goto=newpost Wed, 05 Jun 2013 10:31:33 GMT Discuss. If you get 'stopped' driving the Gen III for some driving violation but you weren't driving (the car was), who gets the ticket? I say we just mail them to Elon himself, :biggrin:. ]]> Future Cars yobigd20 http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17588-GenIII-who-gets-the-driving-violation-ticket-for-the-driverless-car-tech Gen III car is actually 2 cars http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17365-Gen-III-car-is-actually-2-cars?goto=newpost Thu, 30 May 2013 18:33:07 GMT Right at the end of today's announcement he said that the Gen III car would actually be two cars, similar to the Model S/X concept we have now. A smaller sedan and smaller SUV. And he confirmed the Gen III cars and all future Tesla cars would be able to supercharge. ]]> Future Cars Cosmacelf http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17365-Gen-III-car-is-actually-2-cars Model S Coupe Concept http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17359-Model-S-Coupe-Concept?goto=newpost Thu, 30 May 2013 17:46:49 GMT A Coupe rendering of the Tesla S. Tesla, please make this happen it's so damn sexy!

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]]> Future Cars m1kesta http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17359-Model-S-Coupe-Concept Should TSLA use/steal/borrow the Karma design for Gen III? http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17358-Should-TSLA-use-steal-borrow-the-Karma-design-for-Gen-III?goto=newpost Thu, 30 May 2013 17:12:08 GMT Elon has said he does not like the Mexican Bandito front end of the Karma and thinks the car lacks storage space. But lets face it, the Karma is a... Elon has said he does not like the Mexican Bandito front end of the Karma and thinks the car lacks storage space. But lets face it, the Karma is a sweet looking ride and since Henrik Fisker basically designed the Karma as an electric vehicle while taking a salary from Tesla, why not use it? There would be no copyright problems, car companies do this all the time. If Tesla scaled down the size a bit, redesign the front end and added storage space we would have one awesome Gen III vehicle. I know it would seem a bit vindictive, but it is hard not to see that Tesla already paid for the design, why not use it? ]]> Future Cars FreeOfPge http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17358-Should-TSLA-use-steal-borrow-the-Karma-design-for-Gen-III Tesla Commercial Division http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17205-Tesla-Commercial-Division?goto=newpost Mon, 27 May 2013 01:47:30 GMT Hello all, I think in the next coming years, Tesla needs to begin a Commercial Division. Perhaps take on the School Bus companies, or City buses. I... Hello all,
I think in the next coming years, Tesla needs to begin a Commercial Division. Perhaps take on the School Bus companies, or City buses. I think those sectors could easily be taken down, as those cars don't need to travel very far distance. Maybe modular designed so they can carry more batteries if needed or less. I think this would be a great sector for Tesla to gain brand recognition.
Any thoughts or Developments? ]]> Future Cars Clprenz http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/17205-Tesla-Commercial-Division