Hydrogen vs. Battery - Page 33

dpeilow · 08-20-2009, 03:21 PM

Honey, I shrunk the fuel cell! Next-gen GM hydrogen stack gets small — Autoblog Green

Interesting chat in the comments.

dpeilow · 08-23-2009, 05:54 AM

So there is the series called James May's Big Ideas which is produced with the Open University.

One of the programmes was called Power to the People - the one I had missed until I recorded it last night.

Well - you know it - I think it was about 25 minutes in before we got to the H word. However, to my surprise he did mention its shortcomings.

YouTube Video

Just before this clip starts, he even said that it doesn't naturally occur in pure molecular form.

I did find this later segment quite interesting. The process is impressive, but...

YouTube Video

...3 gallons a day?!?

For those interesting, the sections on fusion , kites in the jetstream and tidal seem to have made it onto Youtube. The sections on Spanish desert solar and how the government quashed a great wave power device in the 70s didn't...

vfx · 08-26-2009, 08:31 PM

One Meeeeyun dollarsss.

DOE launches $1 million Hydrogen Prize — Autoblog Green

dpeilow · 08-28-2009, 01:59 AM

Tesla Founder Marc Tarpenning on How to Start a Car Company

Quote:

The pair looked at cellulosic ethanol and hydrogen fuel cells, but ultimately decided to work on the electric car. Tarpenning said that at the time, about half of the venture capital community was interested in taking a close look at fuel cells, and the other half had already looked at the technology and concluded that “the energy equation doesn’t make sense.”

JRP3 · 08-28-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

What’s the biggest hurdle still standing between electric cars and the mass market, according to Tarpenning? “The batteries really aren’t good enough yet.”

I'd say "aren't cheap enough yet" would be more accurate. High C rate A123 cells and others are plenty good enough, just too expensive.

doug · 08-28-2009, 07:39 AM

More on the cost of batteries:

Greentech Media: Study: Batteries to Add $14,400 to EVs, $5,900 to Plug-Ins

Quote:

The study states that adding batteries to a plug-in will add $5,900 to the cost of a car in 2035, said Daniel Sperling, a professor of civil engineering and the founder of the Institute for Transportation Studies at UC Davis, during a presentation at the Almaden Institute taking place at IBM's Almaden labs.

The batteries in fully electric cars will add $14,400 to the price of a car in 2035, the study states, according to Sperling. The study isn't out yet, he said. It will be released later this summer.

Diesel cars will carry $1,700 to the price of a car. Cars powered by hydrogen fuel cells, meanwhile, will have an additional cost of $5,300.

Regular gas cars, meanwhile, will cost about the same as they do today. A car that costs $19,600 today will cost $21,600 in 2035.

In 2035!! Interested to see the actual study to find out what "facts" lead to this conclusion.

More on Daniel Sperling: Key air board member linked to car, oil firms - Los Angeles Times

dpeilow · 08-28-2009, 09:05 AM

Paid-for FUD.

vfx · 08-28-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

Greentech Media: Study: Batteries to Add $14,400 to EVs, $5,900 to Plug-Ins[/URL]

Sounds like one of those plausible neutral studies.
"Hey I like it, I believe in it, but it just won't work." (Hints of JC here)

"We have this study that shows that cars will increase normally with inflation but for some inexplicable reason taking the engine out of the car and putting in a technology that improves and cheapens every year in will add 50 pecent to the cost of the car"

Reading that LA times story reminds me of that vote. Right up there with oj,

doug · 08-28-2009, 09:53 AM

Honda and GM Persevere with Fuel Cell Technology Despite Funding Cuts - agmetalminer.com

From the conclusion:

Quote:

This all begs the question though why manufacturers like Honda, GM, Daimler and others (in fact pretty much all the majors have fuel cell research programs) are persevering with hydrogen fuel cells? The answer is probably back in Steven Chu’s derisory summing up of the industry. With so many smart brains working in the field, none of the auto makers want to risk being left behind if a miracle in the form of a technological breakthrough does happen. A zero polluting car that can be refueled as quickly as a gas engine does have its attractions.

dpeilow · 08-29-2009, 06:26 AM

Llewtube

Check the episode with John Kingston (Honda UK). The fun starts around 8 minutes.