SSC Ultimate Aero EV- 6 years without a charge.....??? - Page 6

TEG · 01-23-2009, 11:27 AM

So their specs continue to go from absurd down to remotely plausible.
Lets see how much more adjustment they make before we know what they really have.

I think they must be watching!
Their text is already updated today:

Shelby SuperCars - SSC - Exotic Luxury SuperCars

Quote:

Not only does the Ultimate Aero EV have a range of 150-200 miles on a single charge, but SSC's "Charge on the RunTM" onboard charging system allows for 10 minute full battery recharges on a 220V service.

OK, so they finally put a "V" in there, but now it is 220V instead of 110.
And they don't say anything about amps. For a moment, lets say that the car is highly efficient and they only need a 30kWh pack. That's still 180,000 watts for a 10 minute full charge. At 220V that's 818amps.

Also their range claim changed from "200 miles" to "150-200 miles".
Does that mean average range? EPA range? Range at what speed?
Range could be 2 miles at 208mph, but 200 miles at 40mph.
If they say "150-200" does that imply that they are promising a 150 mile range at 208mph?

Back to 10 minute quick charge... Where do they propose you will find those charge spots? What sort of cable are they talking about? Note this picture showing a prototype BYD F3 with both normal and quick charge sockets:

(We are talking mammoth cable to support quick charge)

stopcrazypp · 01-23-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

OK, so they finally put a "V" in there, but now it is 220V instead of 110.
And they don't say anything about amps. For a moment, lets say that the car is highly efficient and they only need a 30kWh pack. That's still 180,000 watts for a 10 minute full charge. At 220V that's 818amps.

Back to 10 minute quick charge... Where do they propose you will find those charge spots? What sort of cable are they talking about? Note this picture showing a prototype BYD F3 with both normal and quick charge sockets:
(We are talking mammoth cable to support quick charge)

I haven't been able to find what voltage the 250kW Aerovironment charger that was demonstrated to fully charge a 35kWh AltairNano battery in 10 minutes runs on. Some people say it's 240 Volts since it's grid connected.

However, I was able to find that the Aerovironment PosiCharge rapid chargers being used to rapid charge EVs in Hawaii and also for forklifts have a max of 600 amps of safe charging current.

TEG · 01-23-2009, 12:18 PM

For a car with an EV range approaching 200miles, one has to assume that they have a pack with at least 30kWh... To recharge in 10 minutes, that needs at least a 180kW charger.

http://www.posicharge.com/ELT.pdf

Quote:

PosiCharge ELT is the workhorse of the lineup, powering the
hardest-working fleets in some of the largest companies in the
world with up to 600 amps.

Quote:

MODEL ELT 600
POWER RATING 36kW
UTILITY REQUIREMENTS* 480VAC, 3 PHASE
FULL LOAD AMP DRAW 60A

Quote:

MODEL 680+
POWER RATING 30kW
UTILITY REQUIREMENTS 480VAC, 3 PHASE
FULL LOAD AMP DRAW 48A

Note: they have 600VAC and 240VAC version also, but output kW is similar.

So, those PosiCharge stations are no where near high enough currrent to get a 10 minute charge on a big pack like the Aero EV would almost certainly have. An hour would be more realistic.

Things still don't add up. Either their range numbers are questionable (and they have a much smaller pack), or their 10 minute charge doesn't use a "regular" outlet. They already changed it from "110" to "220", and maybe next it goes to "440" or "600"? Besides, these 10 minute charges have still been somewhat of a pipe dream as those current levels aren't available everywhere, and the equipment to charge safely at those levels is extremely expensive. Who (aside from a proof of concept demo) is going to front the money to get such a hook up to get the current you would need safely? Is this of any practical use anytime soon?

----
http://www.ac-dc-power.de/02_Produkte/PDF_AV/AV-900.pdf

Quote:

INPUT RATING 3 Phase, 480Vrms,
CURRENT 335Arms

http://www.pagnet.org/Documents/Comm...oVironment.pdf

Quote:

(page 13)
Fast Charge, 10 minutes, 100% SOC - 125kW (small sedan), 250kw (SUV/Sedan), 500kW (heavy duty)

Quote:

250kW EV Charger – Specifications
Input Voltage: 3phase 400VAC- 600VAC

Quote:

Technical Issues:
Developing a Level 3 connector that meets physical constraints while
also meeting functional requirements

AeroVironment, Inc.: EV Test Systems: AV-900/900CE Detail

(stick that 3,500lb+ box in your driveway!)

AeroVironment shows Altairnano 10 minute recharge | Cleantech Group
AeroVironment Announces Expansion of Popular Product Line; Systems Revolutionize Testing of Fuel Cells, Batteries and Turbines | Business Wire | Find Articles at BNET
AeroVironment successfully quick charges Altair Nanotechnologies battery - AutoblogGreen

stopcrazypp · 01-23-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEG

250kW EV Charger – Specifications
Input Voltage: 3phase 400VAC- 600VAC

So it looks like those are at the 400V+ range, so they might have to adjust their numbers again.

Obviously it won't be at a standard outlet; they have since backed out from that claim.

It seems their press releases are continually edited so you can't really trust what they are saying. Hopefully at least their horsepower and performance claims hold.

dpeilow · 01-23-2009, 02:49 PM

OK so I think we should post the entire SSC press releases from now on, for archive purposes

At least from that picture evidence BYD seem to be thinking about this. It may weigh as much as a fire hose, and the authorities might not like it, but their solution could actually do the job...

vfx · 01-23-2009, 03:24 PM

I see those cables at Burbank Airport plugged into the various luggage vehicles. They come from up high.

I have pictures...

doug · 01-23-2009, 03:27 PM

World's Fastest Car Goes Electric | Autopia from Wired.com

TEG · 01-23-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doug

World's Fastest Car Goes Electric | Autopia from Wired.com

You know the auto world really has changed when blogs like that immediately start debates over efficiency, recharge times and battery capacity. The conversations now are of the same intensity (or more) as the "old days" conversations of compression ratios, cam grinds, and octane ratings.
The EV sports car concept really is becoming more mainstream.

There are a lot of people now pondering MPGe, kWh and such. Not so much a few years ago.

stopcrazypp · 01-26-2009, 12:45 AM

Thinking back on this rapid charging business, I looked back at the Lightning car which supposedly will use 3 phase power.

According to this wiki article Three-phase - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3 phase power means 1.5x the power of typical single phase (if I am reading it correctly).

It might help with the voltage requirements if they are using 3 phase power (of course they don't say what kind of power they are using).

doug · 01-26-2009, 06:08 PM

SSC's plug-in supercar would need the mother of all plugs | Up to Speed | Los Angeles Times

Quote:

... What's wildly, insanely not plausible, and is in fact a monstrous load of fertilizer, is the claim that you could recharge such a battery in 10 minutes on household current. For that you would need to plug into 300 kilowatts, or 0.3 megawatt, roughly the equivalent of a small neighborhood substation.

"You'd have to have a pretty big cable," Gage says. "What they are talking about has absolutely no relation to household current. It's completely bogus." I repeatedly tried to contact SSC, with no luck.

...

Late on Thursday, however, journalists received a cryptic e-mail from the company, with this passage: "There was a premature release that was leaked yesterday, if there were posts made based on this release, there is one major change that needs to be made. The 10 minute recharges are possible via a 220v outlet NOT a 110v outlet. In addition, there are a few new items in this official release including an email address to register for our media event. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused anyone."

All well and good. SSC seems to want to walk back its wild claim. However, 220V doesn't help much. At 220V and -- oh, let's say 30 amps -- that's 6,600 watts. You would STILL need nearly eight hours to recharge a 50kWh battery. The 10-minute figure is, let's say, highly fanciful. And, just as a PS: SSC promises the battery will last 20 years. Do I hear 50? Why not 100?