Zenn highway car powered by EEstor - Page 3

domenick · 04-11-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpedOne

You people forgot Project Better Place?

Looks like they've solved the quick battery replacement problem and are building battery swap stations in Israel and Danmark at least.

I wasn't keen on this approach but some big money is being thrown into this solution so it might just work. No expensive on-site quickcharging equipment, just a simple robot and battery warehouse. At 500cycles per battery lifetime and some 20.000$ per battery pack that means at least 40$ per battery swap. Hmmm that might just work where the gasoline is really expensive, like Israel or Europe.

There are no immediate plans to build any swap stations anywhere and IMHO there never will be. Too expensive to set-up, too prone to break down, too expensive to maintain, and too difficult to adapt one system for many manufacturers.

WarpedOne · 04-11-2008, 05:02 AM

domenic, wake up and taste the reality.

The company is up: Project Better Place

People know about it: Project Better Place - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel is in the lead:
Green Car Congress: Project Better Place Israel Appoints CEO
Project Better Place Appoints Israel CEO, Declares Israel as Primary R&D Center | Project Better Place

Danmark is also on the boat:
Project Better Place goes to Denmark | Cleantech.com

Nissan and Renault will build and sell electric cars:
Nissan / Renault and Project Better Place to collaborate on line of electric cars » VentureBeat

NEC will build LithiumIon batteris:
Green Car Congress: Renault-Nissan and Project Better Place Sign MoU for Mass Marketed EVs in Israel; Implementing New Ownership Model

Kardax · 04-11-2008, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpedOne

You people forgot Project Better Place?

Looks like they've solved the quick battery replacement problem and are building battery swap stations in Israel and Danmark at least.

I wasn't keen on this approach but some big money is being thrown into this solution so it might just work.

Throwing lots of money at a problem doesn't guarantee success. Just look at Hydrogen, or Iraq...

-Ryan

domenick · 04-11-2008, 05:44 AM

I've read all those articles and I've known about Denmark since last year. The plans for Denmark only mention charging places and the charging station plans for Israel in the Greentech article are speculative. The first cars won't even arrive for another two years.

I don't know for sure, but IMHO swapping stations won't happen.

Cobos · 04-11-2008, 07:50 AM

Since the initial launch of this project has only one car manufacturer onboard and the the whole battery as a service idea means they controle the battery, and hence they can build battery swap stations. I'd say in Israel you will see a few if nothing else to show they can build them. The big idea though is saturating parking lots EVERYWHERE with normal outlets for slow charging and removing the cost of the battery (and the risk of the battery). That is the real genius of this plan.

Cobos

WarpedOne · 04-11-2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kardax

Throwing lots of money at a problem doesn't guarantee success. Just look at Hydrogen, or Iraq...
-Ryan

But in this case, it is private money. 200 million dollars of it.
If they do not do what they promise and return profit, those 200 million dollars are lost and investors will be mighty angry at Agassi.

DDB · 04-11-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobos

Since the initial launch of this project has only one car manufacturer onboard and the the whole battery as a service idea means they controle the battery, and hence they can build battery swap stations. I'd say in Israel you will see a few if nothing else to show they can build them. The big idea though is saturating parking lots EVERYWHERE with normal outlets for slow charging and removing the cost of the battery (and the risk of the battery). That is the real genius of this plan.

Cobos

I completely agree. If every parking slot in the US had a charging slot, the vast majority of us could drive electrics for our daily driving, regardless of range. Agassi has attacked the infrastructure from two fronts, the long range and short range issues both. And another thing is the governments are supporting the plan...that hasn't happened in the US, which is a reason why EVs have not succeeded. Government throws enough dollars at it, eventually it is going to stick. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer the feds stay out of it. But don't think for a second I wouldn't vote for Iraq dollars being pumped into EV infrastructure.

vfx · 06-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Official Press release about the EStore:

This may be the first "not too punishing" Electric Car to hit the market.

http://www.zenncars.com/media/press_...uncesPlans.pdf

Hope it does well on all fronts.

mt2 · 06-02-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vfx

Official Press release about the EStore:

This may be the first "not too punishing" Electric Car to hit the market.

http://www.zenncars.com/media/press_...uncesPlans.pdf

Hope it does well on all fronts.

There's that line again; "the cityZENN will be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes". It's an older press release, but the first time I've read it in an official statement from them.

I do believe that the EEStor (if it exists) will be capable of taking a charge in five minutes. But I find it difficult to understand why ZENN continues to imply that we'll be able to charge the car that quickly without causing brown-outs and setting my garage on fire.

Okay, I did read somewhere about a plan to trickle charge one EEStore during the day and dump the energy into the car's EEStor when I plug it in. But what would be the point in a five minute full charge after I brought my car home? And if the plan is to do it at a filling station, where's the infrastructure?

I hate marketing spin.

DDB · 06-03-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mt2

There's that line again; "the cityZENN will be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes". It's an older press release, but the first time I've read it in an official statement from them.

I do believe that the EEStor (if it exists) will be capable of taking a charge in five minutes. But I find it difficult to understand why ZENN continues to imply that we'll be able to charge the car that quickly without causing brown-outs and setting my garage on fire.

Okay, I did read somewhere about a plan to trickle charge one EEStore during the day and dump the energy into the car's EEStor when I plug it in. But what would be the point in a five minute full charge after I brought my car home? And if the plan is to do it at a filling station, where's the infrastructure?

I hate marketing spin.

I'm no engineer, but isn't that the point of ultracaps? To store large amounts of energy in one place for quick release?--or maybe that's their ability? Point is, why can't you have an ultracap in the garage for "filling up" the battery in your vehicle? It could charge overnight or all day... or is that just dead wrong?