domenick

Fact? No, that would be speculation.


As for quick charging an EESTOR, I don't think it's as big a deal as many make it out to be. The wires on the machine used to fastcharge the Altairnano in 10 minutes weren't too bad. Besides that, in a service station environment, it would be possible to have an attendant plug in your car for you. While that is happening the attendant could clean your windshield.

YouTube Video

stopcrazypp

I think that car in is the same car as described in this article:
"A Micro-Vett Fiat Doblò, a regular size 5-seat station wagon, powered by a custom 18kWh Altairnano lithium-ion NanoSafe battery pack, traveled 300 kilometers (186 miles) in one day in an urban delivery circuit. The custom battery pack was fully recharged in less than ten minutes a total of three times using AeroViroments’ high voltage, 125kW rated, rapid charging system. "
Nanobattery Fiat driven 300km in one day

18kWh gives a range of around 90 miles, so the charge is around 10minutes/90miles. We already know this was possible a long time ago with the hawaii rapid charging network: Hyundai Santa Fe EV | Green Car .com
This source mentions a 10-20 minute charge for 80 or 120 miles.

I don't think the problem is so much the wires than the power input from the power company. I think people are worried that our current electricity infrastructure can't handle too many rapid charging systems (notice the 125kW rated charging system in the altairnano; Tesla's 30amp, 220V system will only result in 6.6kW). Put I don't think it will be that bad of a problem if the stations have some kind of ESS (similar to how they store gasoline) so that the impact on our electric infrastructure wouldn't be too bad esp. during peak hours.

But notice that ZENN's claims are much more extreme: 250miles of range with a LESS than 5 minute charge. Some quick math: Current ZENN gets 30 miles (optimistic) with around 5kWh (found it after a LONG dig). 250 would take at LEAST 42kWh (this doesn't include charging inefficiencies and if you look at Tesla they got only 220 with a 53kWh pack). 42kWh * 60min/h * 1/5min = greater than 504kW system. Thats 4 times as much as the altairnano system. Maybe the ESUs can handle it, but then the wires and charging system might not.

Just a quick check on my math: 125kW altairnano system: 125kW * 1hr/60min * 10min = 20.8kWh: Not far off from the 18kWh rating of the altairnano pack.

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domenick

I definitely think that a fast-charge station will need a large EESU to dish out the power from. I think if could do double duty as a load leveler it could help with revenue and grid stability.

I think the question should be, with the proper equipment, "at what rate could the Altairnano be charged?". Or A123s or what have you.

Iz

From my perspective, the 5-min recharge time is less important than range and energy storage. Assuming EEStor's claims are correct, an equivalent EEStor unit the size of a TM ESS would have triple the range?

Kardax

I agree with everyone that that rapid-charge stations will need some kind of bulk on-site storage to avoid overloading the grid.

The challenge here is three things:
1. Capacity--the local storage must have enough capacity to meet the day's demand.
2. Cost of #1--High-capacity energy storage systems are really expensive.
3. Profitability--given the high cost of implementation, they'll have to charge more than the typical rate for electricity. Combined with the fact that it's more convenient for most people to charge overnight at home, business would be very slow.

Quick-charge has a lot in common with hydrogen, actually. Expensive vehicles, expensive fuel, expensive infrastructure, and unavailability...

-Ryan

Cobos

I completely agree with Kardax as very quick charge is not really necissary. It's the same with laptop weight, as you take off the pounds you end up making harder and harder sacrifices on usability, speed and features which only to a certain degree can be compensated with increased price. At a certain point there is no need to make it lighter as it's "light enough" and any further lightness will cost too much.
The same with quick charge, any solution that can feed about 72A at about 500V should give you a serious boost compared to a home charger and not require much in infrastructure investment. Anything more than that and the cost of installation (and use with extra boost from storage units/flywheels/super gizmo) is not worth the small number of customers. That means you need an Range extender on gas or make dinnerlike breaks every 4-6 hours...
Just look at PBP, they want normal 230V slow chargers everywhere, and then build like 10 fast chargers or so to cover entire Israel.

Cobos

vfx

So maybe first models come out with two chargeing options.

Overnight charge at the base price

And a home quick charge set up for a substantial increase in price.
It has a battery station that charges during off peak hours and can fill your car in 5 minutes.

Like the Tesla, It would be expensive at first but just proving it can be done will show people that EVs are the future and that in time the price will come down.

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flabby

If Eestor does pan out, wouldn't that solve the cost and capacity of an energy storage unit for a charge station(just buy a bunch of eestor units for each charge station)?

WarpedOne

You people forgot Project Better Place?

Looks like they've solved the quick battery replacement problem and are building battery swap stations in Israel and Danmark at least.

I wasn't keen on this approach but some big money is being thrown into this solution so it might just work. No expensive on-site quickcharging equipment, just a simple robot and battery warehouse. At 500cycles per battery lifetime and some 20.000$ per battery pack that means at least 40$ per battery swap. Hmmm that might just work where the gasoline is really expensive, like Israel or Europe.

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TEG

I hadn't. I have been thinking a lot about them lately. By the way, check this link:

Renault, Nissan Weigh Lithium-Ion Battery For Electric Car Projects - WSJ.com