daniel

Based on my experience with LiFePO4 in my Xebra, there is little if any reduction in range in Spokane's winters. North Dakota would surely be a different matter. LiFePO4 is definitely much less affected by cold than is lead.

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Range test number 3. (70 mph. Sort of.)

This morning I again drove to Post Falls and back on the freeway. My intention was to maintain 70 mph. However I hit two snags with that: For the first 2 or 3 miles the traffic was going 60 and I could go no faster. More significant was the power loss:

At my turn-around, when I got back onto the freeway and intended to accelerate rapidly to my cruising speed (yes, that's inefficient, but safety trumps all) I noticed a sort of pulsating hesitation. I noticed the same yesterday and wrote it off as rough road. But today the same pulsating hesitation appeared again as I neared the end of the freeway portion of my trip. Slowing down all was well, but I could tell that I lacked power. I downshifted, and that helped, but I clearly had less power.

The obvious explanation presented itself immediately: My voltage was down. I had consumed roughly half my "safe, usable" energy (i.e. keeping 20% in the pack). The lower the battery SoC the lower the voltage and the less the power. I was surprised that at roughly 60% SoC (40% DoD) the car would be unable to maintain 70 mph, but such was the case.

I spent about 25 1/2 miles on the freeway, driving 70 as much as I could, and 60 at the start (due to traffic) and the end (due to power reduction). I averaged 435 wh/mi, which would translate to a full pack range of 64 miles, or a "safe" range of 51 1/2 miles.

But this made me realize that one amp-hour may not get me as far at the end of the pack as it gets me at the start of the pack, and my range calculations in all my tests might be high.

Daniel

Kevin Harney

OK now I am with everyone else... you got ripped off and you need to return it and have him take it back or bring it up to contract standards.

daniel

See, that's probably not possible: The car itself is mine. I bought it from a dealership. Paul converted it. I can't "return" it because I'd be asking Paul to refund what I paid him and the price I paid for the car.

As for upgrading it, there are two problems:

He took eleven months to do the conversion. I am not willing to wait another eleven months for the car. And:

He put as many batteries as will fit in this car without ripping out the back seat, and he says he bought the most powerful controller he regarded as reliable.

As I said above, I think he acted in good faith. I think he didn't realize what these batteries would or would not do, since (I suspect) his previous experience was with lead.

The installation is clean and professional-looking. It just does not have the power or the range either of us expected it to have. And given what's actually available today, I'm not sure anyone could do much better. The eBox from AC Propulsion has more range at a lower cost, but IMHO it's the ugliest thing on the road, even including that dead 'possum somebody ran over last week. There's probably a year's waiting list for a Roadster, or maybe longer, and to me it's not a comfortable car, though it is beautiful.

If somebody has an EV for sale in nice condition (i.e. no junkers whose wheels are ready to fall off) with air bags and ABS, that will do 125 miles on a charge at freeway speed, with tolerable acceleration and good handling, I'm in the market. And I'm serious. But I'd have to drive it to see for myself that it performs. But I don't expect to get any offers. I'm thinking that for all it's fallen short of promises, conversion cars don't get a lot better than this, and production cars either went out of production when GM crushed the EV1, or won't go into production for another five years. Except for the Roadster, which has such a long waiting list. And I gather they don't always give the range their owners expected, either.

To get the kind of range the Roadster has, half the total volume and probably three quarters of the weight of the car is batteries. You can do that in a production car, but not in a conversion. And while there are a lot of very fast conversion cars out there, I doubt there are many that can go 100 miles on a charge.

I paid more than I would have, had I known what it would really do, but now that I have it I'm going to enjoy it until I can get something better.

Daniel

JRP3

Yeah this isn't looking good. Half the voltage, which gives half the power, and half the range. Even if things improve some as they should I don't see it getting anywhere near your expected specifications. Did you ask him what he thinks the expected wh/mi should be, and tell him what you're experiencing? If he gives you a figure higher than 224 wh/mi there is no way that 28kwh pack could ever get you 125 miles.
Don't know how far these guys are from you but they might be able to take a look at your car and give you some thoughts on it, or point you to someone who could:
EV Parts Contact Information

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JRP3

Do you know the brand of batteries used? As for the range it's all a matter of efficiency matching the pack size. A 300 wh/mi vehicle with a 38kwh pack will get you close to 125 miles of range, and that should be possible with the right donor vehicle.
You might be interested in the conversions by Dave and James at Home Page
They have Rav4's with lithium that do 100 miles or more. James posts here in this forum.

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TEG

Thanks, Daniel, for sharing your experience so far.

It isn't much consolation, but I am not too surprised by your experience.

A small conversion operation like this is less likely to live up to their initial promises as compared to a bigger operation like Tesla.
If you look at the Tango story it is also fraught with long delays and unrealized expectations for many. There are countless others.

And even Tesla had delays and mis-steps even though they threw much bigger resources at the problem. They tried very hard not to compromise on the specs they promised.

vfx

Even if you took it across the country you are far from a minor tweak.

If it's real prodution EV's you want, Rav 4's are not too bad looking if a bit utilitarian and they come up for sale on EBay every once in a while. (50K-ish) The wait for a new Tesla is 6 months and if you wanted one now they too are on EBay for about 10 percent off current list.

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The world loves to be deceived.

daniel

I spoke with the battery importer, and he expected me to be getting in the 230 wh/mi range, and was very surprised at my actual numbers. The place you cite is on the coast, about as far from me as you can be and still be in Washington State.

Other folks think that having a DC motor and a transmission waste enough energy to account for the difference. Some folks think he should have removed the tranny, and should have used an AC motor.

I believe he was acting in good faith, but was in over his head. I'm sure he had reasons for all his design choices. I also wonder if maybe my expectations were just plain unrealistic: A relatively new car, in excellent condition, with all the safety features, that would get 125 miles.

The battery importer told me that he believes he could make big improvements in the car's efficiency, but he has no idea how long it would take him or what it would cost. I bought this car to drive it, not to be somebody else's science experiment. I waited eleven months for it and there's no way I'm sending it back to Florida, unless someone offers to pay me back every penny I've put into it plus 20% for grief and suffering during those eleven months of waiting and never knowing what was going on.

I bet Paul will do a much better job on his next one, though.

Too bad I didn't know about them a year ago when I ordered this car. However, I don't really like the looks of the Rav4.

A friend of mine has a Rev4EV. He says it goes 0 to 60 in 16 seconds. That's mighty sluggish for getting onto the freeway. I'd really love to have a Tesla Model S, but it's years before those will be available. As I mentioned before, I find the Roadster very uncomfortable to sit in, with those tilted-back seats.

I'll just enjoy my Porsche for what it is (hey, it is 100% electric after all!!!) and wait for a hundred-mile-plus production EV to come along.

Daniel

vfx

I have to say it again, you could have a Roadster S by November or sooner if one comes up on Ebay. Seats can be fixed.

Enjoy the conversion, It looks great!

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The world loves to be deceived.

daniel

When I said Model S I was referring to the sedan that Tesla plans to build in three years, and which I expect them to build a year later than that (Murphy's law) but which I gather they already have a year's worth of orders for. I.e. a five year wait.

I am going to enjoy my Porsche until something better comes along, which I expect to be three to five years from now.

The Roadster is a beautiful car, beautifully engineered, but awkward for a stiff old man like me.