Cars and TransportationDiscussion about Any Form of Transportation
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I seriously doubt we'll see the big three or any large auto maker in the US coming out with a 3 wheeler, ever. Three wheeler's main advantage is that the DOT sees them as motorcycles so they don't have to meet crash standards.
Three wheeler's main advantage is that the DOT sees them as motorcycles so they don't have to meet crash standards.
So, that makes them suicide vehicles?
VenuterOne's main advantages are low weight and good aerodynamics. Both are big concerns when designing an EV. That DOT treats them as motorcycles is DOT's problem.
This is a new class of vehicles that still needs a name. Three wheelers are not all the same.
VenuterOne's main advantages are low weight and good aerodynamics. Both are big concerns when designing an EV. That DOT treats them as motorcycles is DOT's problem.
This is a new class of vehicles that still needs a name. Three wheelers are not all the same.
I'm not saying they are necessarily unsafe, just that their big advantage for small scale vehicle manufacturers is that they don't have to jump through the crash test hoops. My main point this whole time has been that three wheeled vehicles, electric or otherwise, have not and will never be more than a niche vehicle, and that time, money and energy would be better spent improving four wheeled vehicles. There are many more 2 wheeled vehicles in the world than 3 wheelers, yet if all of them were changed to electric it would have little impact on our transportation problems. So, to be quite clear and tie it back into the original topic, I think it would be a waste of Martin's time to work on a 3 wheeled vehicle of any sort.
I'm not saying they are necessarily unsafe, just that their big advantage for small scale vehicle manufacturers is that they don't have to jump through the crash test hoops. My main point this whole time has been that three wheeled vehicles, electric or otherwise, have not and will never be more than a niche vehicle, and that time, money and energy would be better spent improving four wheeled vehicles.
Can you back up that assertion with any line of reasoning?
From where I sit, three wheeled vehicles make a lot of sense -- especially when your goal is energy efficiency. As far as I can tell, your objection is that "three wheelers have never been popular, therefore they can never be popular". That's a non sequitur.
It only makes sense if you can sell them. Otherwise the potential improvement to overall market efficiency is tiny. Three-wheeled vehicles are an... interesting... compromise - all the safety of motorcycles, with all the manuverability of cars. Or worse, actually, since their cornering ability is more limited due to center-of-gravity issues.
The meat of the car market is sedans. You want to change the world, that's where you try and have something to sell. I personally would never buy a three wheeled vehicle, and I doubt that I'm alone in that sentiment.
Well, since this off-topic thread has gone even off-er, I might as well keep it going.
Regarding designing vehicles with three wheels so they will be classified as a motorcycle and thereby avoid crash testing; The Aptera was designed with three wheels to reduce rolling resistance. The Venture One's history is a little more complex; it is based on Holland's Carver, which started life as a narrow vehicle to navigate European streets. The tilting mechanism Venture licenses from Carver is engineered for three wheels. The fact that they can avoid destroying multiple prototypes is a happy "accident" that allows them to bring the vehicles to market faster. Although, both of the above manufacturers do intend to physically crash test the vehicles because that's whats expected by consumers. In the meantime they are virtually crash testing them, which Martin has pointed out gives all the same data - it just isn't what the DOT requires.
Okay, the T-Rex is a toy for the rich and unsafe at any speed. No denying that JPR3 is right in regard to some of the three wheelers - probably most. But the other side of that argument is that from Aptera to Zap, there are a lot of three wheelers hitting the market and a lot of people are interested in them. Even our own Tony Belding has expressed interest in an Aptera, if he wasn't already getting a Roadster. Me, I'm seriously considering a Venture One as my daily commuter - so much so that I have my name on the waiting list and am an administrator of the fan club. (Yes, I'm still looking at the WhiteStar as my other ride).
It won't be overnight, but I seriously believe that safe, clean, fun three wheel vehicles will find a strong place in the US market somewhere between motorcycles and five passenger sedans.
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Mark Tomlinson
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