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  1. Doug_G's Avatar Tesla.
  2. Ecolimo's Avatar
    I just picked up a 2013 S85 from the Lawrence Centre and this morning could not get the cabin heat working! With the temp controls on MAX and manually directing the air downwards, the cabin stayed very cold. I tried everything I could think of but shivered for 90 minutes driving at -24! Any suggestions before I call Tesla? Thanks, Alan
  3. Aussie Bob's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    I'm curious what range loss one could expect.
    Scenario: Minnesota, -20F outside, car in garage with 240v charging.
    Drive xx miles and park outside 8 hours with no charging before returning home.

    In "normal" weather xx would be ~120 miles for 85kwh battery.
    Estimated xx on severe cold for round trip?

    I have been driving in cold temperatures in Ottawa area and find that I am getting anywhere from 40-60% of rated distance. The longer I am parked without charging the worse it gets. Temps have been as cold as -28C.
  4. Unregistered's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered
    I'm curious what range loss one could expect.
    Scenario: Minnesota, -20F outside, car in garage with 240v charging.
    Drive xx miles and park outside 8 hours with no charging before returning home.

    In "normal" weather xx would be ~120 miles for 85kwh battery.
    Estimated xx on severe cold for round trip?

    I have never actually dealt with -20F, but at 0 F, you can rely on 60 miles each way.
  5. mibaro2's Avatar
    Thanks for the great blog. As this is my first winter with my model S, I found this very helpful
  6. Aussie Bob's Avatar
    Doug. Thank you for your very insightful report on how to drive the Tesla in the winter. Fortunately we spend as much of Canada's winter driving months as possible outside the country but for the occasions when we are here your info has been invaluable. This was our first time driving the Model S in winter conditions and I have read your site numerous times to learn the best ways to adjust to driving an electric car in winter conditions. We have also experienced a major range draw when parking the car numerous times throughout the city - actual distance is about 40% of rated range on several occasions.

    We had a 12v battery problem that a Tesla ranger replaced last week. At that time he turned the range mode off. Now I know why!

    One other issue we have noticed and wonder whether you have experienced the same problem is condensation on the inside of the car after pre-heating the car. We have noticed this many times . Also when we are away for awhile, we notice that white mould like stuff is on the leather. The ranger said he had never seen this problem before and took photos for his records.

    Any views from anyone as to how to prevent this from occurring? The Model S is parked in an unheated garage. Thanks.
  7. Doug_G's Avatar
    jonnygoldstone - I've never had a problem with running out of charge. I suspect people who get into trouble are mostly rescued by Tesla Roadside Assistance and then learn not to make the same mistake again. I don't think EV rescue is going to be a sustainable business until there are many more EVs on the road.

    Unregistered - today I drove a mere 30 km (19 miles) in three trips, with cold soaks between each trip. I used 159 rated km (100 rated miles). Some of that is due to extra wind resistance, etc., but much of it is due to pack heating and cabin heating. That's pretty much a worst-case scenario, but it goes to show how bad it can be. I'd guess one cold soak could result in an extra 50 rated miles consumption - but it really depends on the conditions.
  8. Unregistered's Avatar
    I'm curious what range loss one could expect.
    Scenario: Minnesota, -20F outside, car in garage with 240v charging.
    Drive xx miles and park outside 8 hours with no charging before returning home.

    In "normal" weather xx would be ~120 miles for 85kwh battery.
    Estimated xx on severe cold for round trip?

  9. DMC-Orangeville's Avatar
    Thanks for this post, Doug. I also read your post on Winter driving. I'm in Orangeville Ontario - similar winters to Ottawa..... My son lives in Nepean, so Ottawa will be my first road trip when I get my S85D in March!
  10. Unregistered's Avatar
    many thanks for the tip with the tires. I have the sotozero and they are very bad in the case of fresh snow and ancleaned streets - what might happen in the Alps of Austria often every winter. Will change now the tires! Thanks and can confirm all your other recommendations. Erwin
  11. BerTX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by nwdiver
    Depends on how much you get paid for EXPORTS... If EXPORTS > Off-peak then it makes more sense to charge at night...

    In TX the is no TOU, no net-metering; Exports get credited ~$0.075.kWh and Imports cost $0.12/kWh so "self-consuming" power to charge your car saves ~$0.045/kWh.
    There are well over 100 power companies in "TX" -- I assume these numbers apply to your utility -- they certainly don't apply to mine. We do have TOU, and net metering and a very different pricing structure. Not criticizing, just in the interest of accuracy...
  12. jonnygoldstone's Avatar
    You are clearly something of a Tesla Guru so hope you don't mind me coming direct to the source.... I've searched around a bit, but couldn't find a clear answer on the availability of mobile charging trucks for roadside assistance in the event of poor planning etc.
    Do you know anything about this side of the industry specifically for Tesla? No worries if not, I'll reach out to Tesla direct!

    PS If there isn't anything currently, I'm minded to look at a cooperative business venture open to EV owners to launch our own mobile EV charging and recovery business. You want in?
  13. Doug_G's Avatar
    No kidding. Now switch back to a loaner car with Pirellis for a few days - which I did last week (even had a snowstorm) - and you'll appreciate the XIce3 even more!
  14. andyro's Avatar
    The Michelins rock Doug. Was doing donuts and drifts in an unplowed p-lot in Brantford yesterday. Traction control finally has aggressive bite, it's hard to fishtail the back, and it's way easier to steer out or steer through whatever squirrellyness was initiated- it's like a completely different car. I had no idea just how bad the Pirellis were until now
  15. MBS's Avatar
    Nigel - Just curious how you are doing now well into your second year "off the grid." I went solar about a year ago, but sitting smack dab in the center of a metro area of 5m folks, we are still connected to the grid. LOVE my solar and am looking at other sustainable alternatives. BTW, I have also have a business in Utah and we made a variety of sustainable choices to keep things within our little 5 acre piece of land.

    Peace brother,
  16. Doug_G's Avatar
    LOL yeah a D would definitely help. I'd love to get one but that's not in the cards for now.

    Good point about driving speed. It does get more complicated in cold temperatures. It may not be obvious, but the optimum driving speed for range in cold conditions is higher than in warm conditions. That's because of the impact of fixed draw over time - longer time equals more energy used.

    It would be really helpful if Tesla would provide simple temperature readouts for the battery pack and drive train. A single gross number for each would do wonders for people trying to optimize winter driving range. Unfortunately we can't even get TPMS readout, so I'm not holding my breath on this one.

    I rarely see the snowflake because I'm really big on preheating in the winter. On those extreme cold days I plug into the charging station at work so I can fully preheat on AC power. I have a loaner right now and I'm really missing the preheat! (Also my XIce3 tires... did I mention that the Pirellis are crap for winter? Really bad today.)
  17. scottm's Avatar
    Honest, officer... I'm keeping my speed up to prevent the car from freezing its batteries and coming to a halt. Maybe that will fly?

    Doug - you didn't talk about the snowflake symbol that also sometimes appears on the dash next to the battery. I think I've seen the snowflake without the accompanying blue marker on the battery pack... but not sure now, maybe they always come in conjunction with one another.

    JUST THINK of all these Tesla features Canadians get to try out and use ...that Floridians will never get the joy of experiencing.

    I will add a vote for Xice3, way to go... for Edmonton.

    AND GOOD TIP on turning OFF the traction control to get rolling. I never thought of that. There have been a couple times, on shear ice, where even the lightest touch on the pedal spins rears and car goes nowhere.. I thought I was going to be stranded on a flat road. That would have been embarrassing.

    I guess the other thing to try in similar situations is to turn Creep Mode ON. Maybe it has a lighter feather touch on the go pedal than a human for getting out of a slippery spot. Slight incline.

    Or the other thing might be, buy a D.
    Updated 2015-02-03 at 01:29 PM by scottm
  18. wycolo's Avatar
    If I had a garage I'd build up a platform with old foam pieces covering it. It would be sized to fit neatly under the battery to keep it warm overnight. Since my suspension is already Very High as I approach the 'ranch', I would just have to lower the car so the battery bottom surface squoushes into the foam rubber. Guiding boards would be needed to position the car. Also remember to raise car to max before driving off!!

    Bet this would make for great energy savings for winter commuters. [I'm not a commuter, though].

    No, the battery bottom cannot be permanently insulated since come a warm day the battery would overheat shutting down the car. [someone asked]

    Great blog Doug!
  19. CanuckS#69's Avatar
    Toronto's Service Centres are now selling Hakka R2's, but at a pretty steep markup.

    I'm also on my third Canadian winter with my Model S and have clocked ~120k km so far. Everything that Doug has presented is spot on, but I'd add one additional tip for severe weather. When the roads are still a mess and the snow is still falling, keeping your speed up can be important. I've found that in extreme temperatures, 50kph isn't enough to produce enough motor heat to offset the pack heater. 70-80kph does the trick, but you don't always have that option if conditions are unsafe or your are restricted by the speed of traffic. If you are out in these sorts of conditions with no options, be aware that the pack heater will make a *serious* dent in your range even at low, efficient travel speeds due to being on the road longer with that 6kW monster eating battery for a longer period of time at low speed.

    One other note: I'm not sure if this is a recent firmware change or not, but while plugged in and fully charged, you now get the car's draw from shore power, which means that you can measure the heat, a/c, etc. draw directly from the car's instrument cluster.
  20. andyro's Avatar
    Was able to get Michelin X-Ice3 tires from a cancelled sale - because Tesla will still only sell the Pirellis. IMO these really ought not to be the default Winter tire. Thanks for the rx Doug - and heater description. Wondering if periodic on/off heating is in fact less efficient than constant low temp (17.5-20) - as HP might operate better when matching heatloss, rather than ramping up to sudden heavy loads - I usually toggle on to de-fog windshield but keep seat heat to stay warm (my trips are often over 600km)... I don't trust 'range mode' to really help max my range, which is why I drive with sorels and a down vest, toque and mitts! (the canadian range extender kit)
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