| Battery Discussion Discussion about Electric Car Batteries |
 | |  | It's the Batteries, Stupid! |  | 
05-15-2008, 07:52 PM
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#1 | | ERIC VFX
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: CA Posts: 4,634 | It's the Batteries, Stupid!
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Last edited by TEG; 05-15-2008 at 08:07 PM..
Reason: (fixed broken link)
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05-16-2008, 06:05 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,240 | "dependence on imported batteries"
Are there any potential hardline battery exporting nations??? And anyway, what's stopping the US building up it's own manufacturing base. Again? | |
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05-17-2008, 01:08 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 632 | Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolm  "dependence on imported batteries"
Are there any potential hardline battery exporting nations??? And anyway, what's stopping the US building up it's own manufacturing base. Again? | That's true, but I think what one of the commenters mentioned is true too, that the battery pack is more like an engine, a part that isn't replaced for the car's lifecycle. Electricity is the fuel. Foreign made batteries are as much a threat to national security as foreign made consumer goods; these things we could always build at home if the situation calls for it, but for resources like oil we really have no choice. Yes it's probably bad for the job market in the US, but it doesn't directly related to security, esp since the countries they listed as primary battery producing nations are Japan and Germany, both strong allies to us.
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05-17-2008, 02:58 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Slovenia, Europe Posts: 783 | Don't forget lithium batteries are recyclable. Thats a major improvement on oil that you can only burn once.
Last edited by WarpedOne; 05-17-2008 at 03:09 PM..
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05-17-2008, 06:53 PM
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#6 | | Mostly water
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 310 | Lithium is the 33rd most common element in the Earth's crust. There are significant deposits of lithium bearing minerals in South Dakota, North Carolina, and California...
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05-19-2008, 10:35 AM
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#7 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 16 | Another alternative is a fresh approach to lead-acid batteries http://www.fireflyenergy.com/
Their technology is using carbon fiber mats to replace the support grids for the electrodes. This allows higher power densities for a given battery size, as well as improved charging times, higher energy densities and longer battery life. | |
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11-02-2008, 08:20 AM
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#8 | | Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Aptos, California Posts: 1,551 | Nice little primer on battery technology and who is using what today: Market for Electric Vehicle Batteries Is Heating Up - Seeking Alpha Quote:
The big breakthrough was NiMH (nickel-metal hydride) batteries. This technology was developed by a very bright and energetic older gentleman named Stanford Ovshinsky. It was truly a game changer. NiMH batteries were first tried in the electric vehicles used in California several years ago. In 1999, General Motors used NiMH batteries in the EV-1 electric vehicle, giving the car a range of 140 miles. Southern California Edison put a combined 7 million miles on 320 electric Toyota RAV4’s, and concluded that the NiMH battery would last 130,000 to 150,000 miles. Ovonics was acquired by Energy Conversion Devices (NASDAQ: ENER). In 1994, GM bought 60% of ECD, and then in 2000 Texaco bought GM’s share of ECD, and in a 50/50 partnership with ECD, created a spinoff battery company called Cobasys (which owns the patent to NiMH technology). Shortly thereafter, Texaco was acquired by Chevron (NYSE: CVX).
Carmakers today are mostly focused on lithium batteries. In the past several years lithium batteries have become the standard for laptops and cell phones, because they hold the most charge of commonly available batteries. Tesla Motors, which started shipping it’s first electric car this year, leveraged the existing battery technology by making a battery pack out of 6800 lithium batteries, each of which are about the size of a standard “AA” penlight battery.
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11-02-2008, 10:57 AM
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#9 | | Tesla Fan
Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,964 | Quote: |
...lithium batteries, each of which are about the size of a standard “AA” penlight battery...
| I just took this photo comparing 18650 cells (from a flashlight) to more common AA, C and D sizes. 
Is that like a bad joke that the Li-Ions are called "UltraFire" with a logo of a burning fire?! | |
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11-02-2008, 11:05 AM
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#10 | | Head Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Stanford, California Posts: 3,605 | Quote:
Originally Posted by TEG I just took this photo comparing 18650 cells (from a flashlight) to more common AA, C and D sizes. | Thanks, for that. I figure people often make that comparison primarily because the aspect ratio is so similar to that of AAs. Quote:
Originally Posted by TEG Is that like a bad joke that the Li-Ions are called "UltraFire" with a logo of a burning fire?! | 
Someone else worried about lithium: Swapping Peak Oil for Peak Lithium? - Future of Lithium Auto Batteries | Hybrid Cars
Last edited by doug; 11-02-2008 at 12:53 PM..
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