Hong Kong Model S Pricing

[markwj]

Happy to see the Canadian pricing has been released as base + local mods + duties + shipping x exchange rate average. I had heard rumors of this, and it is fantastic to see the first international pricing come out.

By comparison, for the Roadster, here in Hong Kong we were hit with +20% above US prices (no tax or import duties for EVs here). Other EVs are marked up 30%+. Seeing the Canadian prices really gives me hope that Tesla will keep things reasonable.

A base Model S here for HK$500k would be cool and really help adoption. Leafs are HK$418k, by comparison.

[ekwng]

Oh..Good to hear that!

Leaf is a nice little EV but with a whopping price tag of HK$418k!! OMG!!

The way I see it, if you're gonna switch to EV and help save our planet, why not do it with some style?

If Tesla HK get their pricing strategy right, and the Government get their act together to push for more EV support, Model S would be a big hit here, it fits so well in HK. (I'm a bit worried about Model X's gull wing...)

[moarfish]

I do agree the Nissan Leaf in Hong Kong is way too overpriced. I have test drive it in Science Park. It is a good car I have to admit but I immediately lost my interest when I heard the price tag.

We've got no import tax for EV so I think it is the dealer who set the price too aggressively.

I think Model S would be very successful in Hong Kong but I cannot afford one at the moment. I've bought a few hundred shares of TSLA thru...

[markwj]

Another worry I have about the car for Hong Kong is its sheer size. This is a big car, and our car parks and parking spaces are relatively small.

Same concern for the Model X with its falcon doors - car parks here have 1.8m ceilings.

Is the size of the car an issue for other Hong Kong buyers?

[KingKitega]

Hi markwj - at 77 inches wide, it's wider than the Alphard and S-class! The only car that's comparable is the ginormous Q7, and not many car parks can accept that here...

[markwj]

Hi markwj - at 77 inches wide, it's wider than the Alphard and S-class! The only car that's comparable is the ginormous Q7, and not many car parks can accept that here...

:scared:

[markwj]

Hi markwj - at 77 inches wide, it's wider than the Alphard and S-class! The only car that's comparable is the ginormous Q7, and not many car parks can accept that here...

I checked against my wife's Nissan 7 seater, which the S will replace for us.

S is 77.3" wide, 196.0" long. Mirrors add 4.45" each side. Turning circle is 37'.
Nissan is 73.5" wide, 198.5" long. Mirrors add 5.5" each side (auto-folding). Turning circle is 38.5'.
Alphard is 74.5" wide, 198" long. Turning circle is 38.5'.
Q7 is 78.1" wide, 200.3" long. Turning circle is 39.4'.

Not sure how much difference that extra 4" is going to make. The auto-folding mirrors will be an issue. Turning circle looks good, and that will help.

[moarfish]

I am driving a Hyundai H1 which is 75.6" wide already gives me lots of trouble entering some of the Car Park in Hong Kong. I would not consider buying it if it is 77.3". I would re-consider if the Model S comes with a 360 degree all view camera for me to park. I think I would wait for the smaller Gen III car which fits me better. I would love to see a four seater Coupe version of it!

[markwj]

Now that we have European and Canadian pricing, I did some projections for Hong Kong.

Just projections, but based on an exchange rate of HK$7.85 to US$1.00 (worst case - the high end of the peg), US$4,000 for freight (based on what we know of the roadster, plus a bit for the size of this car), US$150 for registration documents, and -US$2,500 early bird discount (from new pricing), I get:

Base 40kWh (if offered): HK$483,168
Base 60kWh: HK$530,268
Base 85kWh: HK$607,590

Options would be just US price x 7.85.

Bringing in the base 40kWh Model S at under HK$500k would be an amazing psychological price point (like the <US$50k base price in USA).

My config:
- 60kWh base: HK$530,268
- Panaromic Sunroof: HK$11,775
- Nappa Leather: HK$11,775
- Tech Package: HK$29,438
- Active Air Suspension: HK$11,775
- Rear Facing Seats: HK$11,775
for a total of HK$606,805.

For anyone that wants to play with the numbers themselves, the spreadsheet I used is up at:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12782349/HongKong_PricingProjections.xlsx

[svenus]

Another worry I have about the car for Hong Kong is its sheer size. This is a big car, and our car parks and parking spaces are relatively small.

Same concern for the Model X with its falcon doors - car parks here have 1.8m ceilings.

Is the size of the car an issue for other Hong Kong buyers?

I am doing a research on the car parks where I usually drop by. When I saw an X6/Q7 I suppose the MS would be fine. I still do not have 100% confidence handling big car of this size. Yes the size will definitely an issue: I am afraid garage of mine can hardly fit the MS nicely.

[markwj]

I am doing a research on the car parks where I usually drop by. When I saw an X6/Q7 I suppose the MS would be fine. I still do not have 100% confidence handling big car of this size. Yes the size will definitely an issue: I am afraid garage of mine can hardly fit the MS nicely.

Welcome to the forums! Good to see more Hong Kong owners turning up here :-)

My wife did an interesting thing on our test drive. The car was in Cyberport, in the loading bay. Rather than back out (easy), she chose to do a 3 point turn (harder, but she did it on purpose to see how the car behaved in a car park). It wasn't too bad. The visibility was good, rear camera worked well, and turning circle excellent.

I think for Hong Kong, the size is big but ok for the places I go. But, to address these concerns they really need to add (a) parking sensors, and (b) folding wing mirrors.

[waidy]

Does Hong Kong government plan to support EVs in Hong Kong? For example: No/reduced import tax/duty, charging infrastructure, incentives, etc. etc.

[markwj]

Does Hong Kong government plan to support EVs in Hong Kong? For example: No/reduced import tax/duty, charging infrastructure, incentives, etc. etc.

Yes. Incentives are currently:

Charging infrastructure (1,000 sockets, so far)
Free charging (for the moment)
0% First Registration Tax (the big one - tax for ICE cars is upwards of 100%)
Reduced yearly license fees

[moarfish]

Yesterday South China Morning Post say that the selling price would be $600,000 to more than one million. That's a bit more expensive than what I expected.

[waidy]

Yesterday South China Morning Post say that the selling price would be $600,000 to more than one million. That's a bit more expensive than what I expected.


Tesla says the battery will need replacing after eight years - an issue motorists face when considering the switch to electric. On the bright side, since it's green, local buyers will not have to pay a first registration tax on the car, which should cost HK$600,000, Yu says.
Looks like this is yet another HK government incentive, that the registration tax of HK$600K will be waived. I personally own a S85 (model S 85kWh battery pack), but never was told that the battery pack needs to replaced after 8 years.

By the way, the article does not mention the price for Hong Kong Model S (or at least I didn't see it).

[kvietor]

Looks like this is yet another HK government incentive, that the registration tax of HK$600K will be waived. I personally own a S85 (model S 85kWh battery pack), but never was told that the battery pack needs to replaced after 8 years.

By the way, the article does not mention the price for Hong Kong Model S (or at least I didn't see it).

I don't believe Tesla ever said a battery replacement was required at 8 years, only that the warranty for it is 8 years and unlimited miles (on the 85 kWh). Replacement will depend on what your needs are on remaining battery miles. I would expect about 20 to 30% degradation after 8 years, but that really depends on how many charging cycles have been placed on the pack. I recall Elon mentioning in an interview that he expects the battery to last twice that long (16 years)

[markwj]

Yesterday South China Morning Post say that the selling price would be $600,000 to more than one million. That's a bit more expensive than what I expected.

See earlier in this thread:
Hong Kong Model S Pricing (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9728-Hong-Kong-Model-S-Pricing?p=240114&viewfull=1#post240114)

Those are my estimates, based on what has been 'promised' (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_HK/blog/model-s-european-pricing):


Tesla has taken a very straightforward, transparent approach to European pricing. Our goal is to make the same level of profit per car no matter where it is ultimately delivered around the world. We do not think it is right to seek higher profits from customers in some countries just because other companies do. The reason our European prices are higher is simply to cover additional transport costs, import duties and minor business expenses that vary by country. Another important difference is that US prices take into account a $7500 federal tax credit and do not include VAT/sales tax, which results in a 20% increase in some countries.

It should be US price (without incentives) x reasonable exchange rate + transport + minor business expenses. No VAT. No import tax.

I can't see the figure of 'one million' quoted in the SCMP article (Tesla Model S comes to town | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/motoring/article/1124775/tesla-model-s-comes-town)), only:


local buyers will not have to pay a first registration tax on the car, which should cost HK$600,000, Yu says.

The Tattler article (Test Drive: Tesla Model S | Motoring | HongKongTatler.com (http://hk.asiatatler.com/motoring/test-drive-tesla-model-s)) mentions the HK$600,000 figure again:


The Tesla Model S is currently priced from HK$600,000.

... but, newspapers get things wrong.

It is still wait and see...

[moarfish]

This is what told by Apple Daily Yesterday.


新車售價待定，一般估計約由60多萬至百多萬不等，預計第一批最快今年第四季可交車。

Yes, I know Apple Daily usually gives inaccurate data.

and this is what Singtao told on 12/1


以Model S入門版（配40kWh電池）為例，美國當地售價約五萬多美元起，香港售價估計在六、七十萬元水平。

It said the price for the entry model S will be HK$600,000 to HK$700,000.

[stopcrazypp]

but never was told that the battery pack needs to replaced after 8 years.
Most likely the reporter ASSumed that the battery pack will drop dead exactly when the warranty ends in 8 years, when in reality it'll likely still hold about 70-80% charge. Some people may want a replacement at that point (which is what Tesla's battery replacement program is for), but I think most people can live with slightly diminished range.

[DITB]

Now that we have European and Canadian pricing, I did some projections for Hong Kong.

Just projections, but based on an exchange rate of HK$7.85 to US$1.00 (worst case - the high end of the peg), US$4,000 for freight (based on what we know of the roadster, plus a bit for the size of this car), US$150 for registration documents, and -US$2,500 early bird discount (from new pricing), I get:

Base 40kWh (if offered): HK$483,168
Base 60kWh: HK$530,268
Base 85kWh: HK$607,590

Options would be just US price x 7.85.

Bringing in the base 40kWh Model S at under HK$500k would be an amazing psychological price point (like the <US$50k base price in USA).

My config:
- 60kWh base: HK$530,268
- Panaromic Sunroof: HK$11,775
- Nappa Leather: HK$11,775
- Tech Package: HK$29,438
- Active Air Suspension: HK$11,775
- Rear Facing Seats: HK$11,775
for a total of HK$606,805.

For anyone that wants to play with the numbers themselves, the spreadsheet I used is up at:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12782349/HongKong_PricingProjections.xlsx

Even with the shorter driving distances of HK, and all the charging stations, I will still want to pay the 70K difference between the 60/85 battery.

Somehow ... I think the prices will be higher, though.

How about AWD - if it comes as an option on the Model S - would anyone go for it? Not many off-road places in HK, and snow is not really ... an issue.


For me - the real concern is what will come first: My Tesla model S, or the end of the FRT waiver.

[markwj]

Somehow ... I think the prices will be higher, though.

How about AWD - if it comes as an option on the Model S - would anyone go for it? Not many off-road places in HK, and snow is not really ... an issue.

For me - the real concern is what will come first: My Tesla model S, or the end of the FRT waiver.

I also suspect they will be higher, but lets see. Bottom line is complexity of change for HK vs number of cars sold.

Tesla have already said no 4WD - not even for their darling Norway (where they definitely need it).

The FRT situation is terrifying. If they only start deliveries early 2014, they have just a few months to deliver hundreds of cars - not possible for the small team they have here. We are talking to government and trying to push for an extension, but no news yet.

[DITB]

I also suspect they will be higher, but lets see. Bottom line is complexity of change for HK vs number of cars sold.

Tesla have already said no 4WD - not even for their darling Norway (where they definitely need it).

The FRT situation is terrifying. If they only start deliveries early 2014, they have just a few months to deliver hundreds of cars - not possible for the small team they have here. We are talking to government and trying to push for an extension, but no news yet.

I hope there was some way I could help (regarding the FRT). It is not just you and me, but to get some market penetration of EVs - for the benefit of all of HK. MAYBE they could reconsider the FRT, and make some kind of gradual change. Let's say for instance 0% FRT until end of 2014, then 10% the following year and so on, until it reaches ... whatever level is politically acceptable, maybe 50% of ICE cars? They could also just invoke a MPG derived FRT - like they do in many countries. That way, EVs are automatically credited for their lack of exhaust.


As a full-blown Tesla S with all the best specs will be roughly 1M HKD March 31st, it will be roughly 2M HKD on April 1st - a jump in the price of 100% overnight is just not a good way for EVs to break into the market.

When people realise how much can be saved in fuel and maintenance, they will "see the light" and go EV. Of course there is the battery, but with an 85 pack having 8 years/free milage MINIMUM then ... so what? If I still have my Tesla S in 2022, I think I can live with 80% of 500 km range (and who knows how cheap batteries are by then?). Another key point is the waiting time. It's not for everyone to put down money for a reservation, for a car they don't know the price or delivery date for. When Teslas one day are available straight out of the stores, or at least with only few weeks delivery time, then a lot more people will get one.

I would really like my Tesla S - TOMORROW! - but on the other hand, I won't be able to afford it until after new year, so just PLEASE Tesla, make my model S ready by around Chinese New Year 2014, then I am happy as can be :) - and speaking of that, does anyone know what kind of financing and insurance will be available? I am looking for something like an 80% finance deal over 2-4 years.

About the AWD on model S - I think he said no AWD yet ... ? I think it's fine they just focus on getting cars into the market, then deal with these extras later. Those who really want/need AWD can sell second hand and buy a new one, when AWD becomes available. Just like those who always buy the newest iPhone model every time it's released.

[markwj]

It can't hurt to write in to secretary of the environment, who should be driving the FRT incentive issue. I have already.

I've also been trying to setup a meeting. But that is harder.

It is tough that we don't have any EV organization here. Plug in Hong Kong, anyone?

[waidy]

For numbers of BEV and PHEV sold in US, see December 2012 Dashboard - HybridCars.com (http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2012-dashboard).
For EV charging usage, see http://www.theevproject.com/downloads/documents/Q4%202012%20EVP%20Report.pdf

[DITB]

It is also essential that HK SAR and building developers lead the way in solar PVs and wind turbines in HK - as most people live in apartments, they don't have access to roof space for PVs, let alone wind turbines! I so wish I could have made my own electricity - and then some - to power domestics as well as charging my future Tesla S. Although no emissions, I still don't know where the electricity comes from - it could be from the coal power plant across the bay! Still much better than ICE, but 100% solar would just have been going all the way.

Have you ever looked down on lower rooftops in HK? A vast area of ... nothingness, a few fans or air con inlets, but mainly ... just nothing. It's a shame all this space isn't used to augment all those air cons running through the summer, burning fossils to feed them. There are many wind blown islands here, there could easily be put up some wind turbines, and PVs - and it would make HK look better and cleaner!

It seems the production rate is now above 400 vehicles pr week. If they don't have too many issues moving the steering wheel and pedals across to the right side, I figure once they start delivering, things could move quickly. I suspect the main production will still be LH drives, but at least, the potential is there, to get up to speed with RH drives - especially if there is any issue selling RH drives fast enough.

I am sure Tesla HK (and US) are aware that there will be a lot of cancelled orders, for those orders extending past the April Fools Day 2014.

For what a fool, to buy a Tesla on April 1st, and pay a million HKD extra!

- - - Updated - - -


It can't hurt to write in to secretary of the environment, who should be driving the FRT incentive issue. I have already.

I've also been trying to setup a meeting. But that is harder.

It is tough that we don't have any EV organization here. Plug in Hong Kong, anyone?

Make it easier for us, Mark, if you list name and address of the secretary of the environment, and maybe some inspiration as to what to write (for us who don't know much about it), more will do it. Writing SCMP, Apple Daily (yeah right!) and other newspapers, trying to get them on the case might be something too?

[DITB]

Never having purchased a car before in HK, I just looked into the FRT - forgive me if you all knew this already, but for those who didn't, here goes:

Here is how to calculate it:

http://www.td.gov.hk/en/public_services/licences_and_permits/vehicle_first_registration/guidelines_for_importation_and_registration_of_mot/index.html

(It was revised latest in February 2011: http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201102/23/P201102230133.htm in case you wondered)

As it stands, after March 31st, 2014, we will have to apply these taxes:

(a) on the first $150,000 40%
(b) on the next $150,000 75%
(c) on the next $200,000 100%
(d) on the remainder 115%

I did some calculations for you already:

Price before tax - tax - total price

(all prices in 1000s of HKD)

500 - 470 - 970
550 - 827.5 - 1,337.5
600 - 885 - 1,485
650 - 942.5 - 1,592.5
700 - 1,000 - 1,700
750 - 1,057.5 - 1,807.5
800 - 1,115 - 1,915
850 - 1,172.5 - 2,022.5
900 - 1,230 - 2,130
950 - 1,287.5 - 2,237.5
1000 - 1,345 - 2,345


This is to the best of my knowledge of how the rules are applied.

So when we get the HK pricing eventually: Go choose your options, and see above how much you have to bleed extra (in case you don't make delivery by March 31st 2014).

Some points of interest:

- As the tax is most steep after 500K, that is where all the options are going to be (115%).

- A medium spec Tesla will (after 1-4-14) generate 1M HKD to HK SAR

- Anything you add to the basic production Tesla model S after March 31st, 2014 - will cost you MORE THAN DOUBLE UP of the original price.

- A FULL spec Tesla model S will probably cost just over 1 million HKD until April Fools Day 2014 (Signature Performance, with all the extras you can get)
- A ZERO spec Tesla model S will probably cost just over 1 million HKD after April Fools Day 2014 (scraped down production model, smallest battery)

- In other words, most likely (not knowing HK prices yet), the most expensive Tesla model S BEFORE 1-4-14, will be CHEAPER than the CHEAPEST PRODUCTION MODEL AFTER 1-4-14

- If the FRT exemption isn't revised, an owner can potentially make 1.25 to 1.5M HKD on selling his (highest spec) model S after 1-4-14, as the price will go from around 1M to 2.5M in a split second