Canadian Pricing and Delivery

[Doug_G]

As mnx pointed out on the prototype tour thread, Canadian pricing is due out soon. I've heard that they are indeed working on it.

I'm concerned that Tesla is going to overprice the car. A fellow I know was told they were thinking of averaging the last 5 years exchange rate. But that would be highly biased as it includes the turbulence around the 2008 financial crisis. For the last couple of years the dollar has been within two cents of parity, and we're often above parity. The Canadian buck is now considered a "petrodollar".

I can also point out that Tesla was excessively conservative on the exchange rate for my Roadster. They priced in a possible worsening exchange rate, and it went entirely the other way.

Canadians don't like getting screwed on the exchange rate, and overpricing the Model S could cause a backlash. Surely if the margins on this car are as good as planned they can afford to take a tiny risk on exchange fluctuations.

I'm also wondering how soon the cars will launch here. They said "three months after the US introduction", which makes it early October? I'd sure want to have the car before the snow flies! But I was also noticing that the owner of US Sig Special #114 said on these forums that he was told his delivery would be mid-August. This suggests that the early production rate will be at best 200 cars a month.

[RKM]

I share your concern re. Canadian pricing. There would be no reason (other than gouging) for CDN pricing to be higher than US pricing, given the strength of our dollar. The S is a stretch for us, regarding price. I'd hate to see TM boost the Canadian price beyond the US price. I'd asked a sales rep about the Canadian price for a 370 km pack several months ago. His response was that he estimated it would cost in the mid sixty range. Ignoring options, this would be very comparable to US pricing, unless he was factoring in the UF Fed $7500 credit (?).

If Tesla is concerned about the risk of currency fluctuation, is it an option for Canadians to purchase with US funds for the US price?

Rob

[Jeeps17]

Canadians don't like getting screwed on the exchange rate, and overpricing the Model S could cause a backlash. Surely if the margins on this car are as good as planned they can afford to take a tiny risk on exchange fluctuations.

+1 to that.

The US / Canada price differences on cars have traditionally been "explained" by (1) the relative strength of the currencies, which are not currently an issue, as pointed out by Doug, and (2) the radically different market sizes between the two countries.

Because of the latter, I was able to import a new Toyota Sienna in 2008 for a whopping 25% saving on the final price of the vehicle, compared to what I would have paid at a local dealership. The potential savings only increase with more luxurious vehicles, but since you have to purchase the car (i.e. no leasing), not everyone can afford the lump-sum expense.

Since then consumer backlash about perceived gouging in Canada forced most manufacturers to adjust their prices to be more comparable to those in the US, especially for mainstream vehicles (but even Porsche added rebates!). The differences are now generally smaller, but still persist.

The market for Tesla is much smaller, and I agree that any price substantially greater than that in the US would be a major turn-off for many, including myself, especially when considering the much higher tax rates we have to contend with on such a purchase (current combined sales tax in Quebec are over 15%).

This is one of the few things that would make me seriously think about cancelling my reservation.

[mnx]

I'm going to be pissed if they hose us on exchange rates. I'm more than willing to pay in USD if they're concerned about currency fluctuations.

If the Canadian price is much higher than the US price, I'll be downgrading my Sig reservation in a heartbeat to make up for the difference.

Also agree with your comments on having the car before the snow flies.... If not, hopefully they can deliver it with a set of winter tires installed!

(oh and btw thanks for starting a new thread Doug, I should know better. :)



As mnx pointed out on the prototype tour thread, Canadian pricing is due out soon. I've heard that they are indeed working on it.

I'm concerned that Tesla is going to overprice the car. A fellow I know was told they were thinking of averaging the last 5 years exchange rate. But that would be highly biased as it includes the turbulence around the 2008 financial crisis. For the last couple of years the dollar has been within two cents of parity, and we're often above parity. The Canadian buck is now considered a "petrodollar".

I can also point out that Tesla was excessively conservative on the exchange rate for my Roadster. They priced in a possible worsening exchange rate, and it went entirely the other way.

Canadians don't like getting screwed on the exchange rate, and overpricing the Model S could cause a backlash. Surely if the margins on this car are as good as planned they can afford to take a tiny risk on exchange fluctuations.

I'm also wondering how soon the cars will launch here. They said "three months after the US introduction", which makes it early October? I'd sure want to have the car before the snow flies! But I was also noticing that the owner of US Sig Special #114 said on these forums that he was told his delivery would be mid-August. This suggests that the early production rate will be at best 200 cars a month.

[neroden]

As mnx pointed out on the prototype tour thread, Canadian pricing is due out soon. I've heard that they are indeed working on it.

I'm concerned that Tesla is going to overprice the car.

A very valid concern. Tesla's been making a habit of overpricing in certain ways. I understand that this is understandable financial conservatism from a startup, but it's dangerous.

What I'd suggest Tesla do is to hedge against currency fluctuations: I believe Tesla has a planned number of Canadian models to be produced per year, and I assume they can sell them all. So sell Canadian dollar futures and buy American for the appropriate amount of money. They'll have to incorporate a small premium for the cost of the hedging, but that shouldn't be large. They only lose if they fail to sell the cars.

[mnx]

A very valid concern. Tesla's been making a habit of overpricing in certain ways. I understand that this is understandable financial conservatism from a startup, but it's dangerous.

What I'd suggest Tesla do is to hedge against currency fluctuations: I believe Tesla has a planned number of Canadian models to be produced per year, and I assume they can sell them all. So sell Canadian dollar futures and buy American for the appropriate amount of money. They'll have to incorporate a small premium for the cost of the hedging, but that shouldn't be large. They only lose if they fail to sell the cars.

Excellent suggestion.

They many not even lose on the currency forward (hedge) if they fail to sell cars, it could work out in their favour...

[agileone]

+1 to that.

The market for Tesla is much smaller, and I agree that any price substantially greater than that in the US would be a major turn-off for many, including myself, especially when considering the much higher tax rates we have to contend with on such a purchase (current combined sales tax in Quebec are over 15%).

This is one of the few things that would make me seriously think about cancelling my reservation.

Totally agree. Could be a deal breaker for me too!

[hcsharp]

...What I'd suggest Tesla do is to hedge against currency fluctuations: I believe Tesla has a planned number of Canadian models to be produced per year, and I assume they can sell them all. So sell Canadian dollar futures and buy American for the appropriate amount of money. They'll have to incorporate a small premium for the cost of the hedging, but that shouldn't be large. They only lose if they fail to sell the cars.
+1. I would think this would be standard practice rather than overpricing.

About 10 or 15 years ago a friend of mine loaned me his Chevy Suburban for a day. I noticed the speedometer was in km and asked why. He said he saved almost $10,000 by buying the car in Ontario and bringing it to the States. Neither of us could think of a good reason why the car was so much cheaper in Canada. He said other dealers in Ontario were charging about the same price. Apparently things have changed.

[clea]

About 10 or 15 years ago a friend of mine loaned me his Chevy Suburban for a day. I noticed the speedometer was in km and asked why. He said he saved almost $10,000 by buying the car in Ontario and bringing it to the States. Neither of us could think of a good reason why the car was so much cheaper in Canada. He said other dealers in Ontario were charging about the same price. Apparently things have changed.

Well one can always hope that they return to the good old days :wink:

[njligernj]

I'm a Model X reservation holder -- if the S comes out overpriced I will probably cancel my reservation. Man it would be nice if a company just decided to actually appeal to the Canadian market and priced it fairly. Hell make it lower (not saying it has to be 40% lower -- just a couple of points) and you could probably get a whole ton of publicity purely out of the idea of being pretty much the one company in the US that doesn't feel the need to screw us over. We've had two-three years of par or above now I think -- it's not a huge risk and would create a lot of goodwill. I'm in a province with no rebates so if they over-price (plus add in higher Canadian taxes) I could easily be looking at paying $15k-$20k more than the publicized (with rebate) price (and the actual price I would pay if I lived in the US). That's a pretty big pill to swallow. Oh well ... fingers crossed.

[Spurkey]

I'm a Model X reservation holder -- if the S comes out overpriced I will probably cancel my reservation.This is exactly what Tesla faces - they stand to lose twice their reservations if Canadians see price gouging on the S. There isn't just Canada to worry about, Europeans will potentially be affected similarly.

I for one am not too concerned, Tesla to this point has proven to be fairly far-sighted in its actions and I would be quite surprised if the S comes in substantially higher than the US price. They learned a lesson on the Roadster pricing, I don't see the S or the X, which will be substantially higher-production-volume cars, having the same issue.

[Doug_G]

They may have learned the lesson on Roadster pricing, or perhaps more likely they figure the Canadian market is insignificant, leading to a self-fulfilling prophesy... If they make that mistake it would really be too bad, because I think the X especially could be a big hit here.

On the other hand, at least the S should qualify for NAFTA. A good chunk of the Roadster price difference was import duty.

[KBF]

Canadian pricing for me is definitely a major factor in whether I downgrade to production or not. I'm hopeful Elon Musk's time in Canada has given him an understanding of this US-Cdn pricing issue, and now that they have an American factory we should see par. If they don't understand the issue, their short-term money-grab will backfire, and they'll lose at least $10k from me!

I really wish I knew even a ballpark figure regarding time difference between Canadian Sigs and Production - Tesla wouldn't give me an answer, although the term "a few months" was mentioned in passing. The entire Canadian Sig run will probably take one-two weeks max to complete, but I'm concerned that there will be a LOT of US "P's" done before Canadian ones. And I'd love to drive my car before winter!

[Alex_C]

Not sure if you guys saw this but an article came up on La Presse concerning the Fisker Karma

http://auto.lapresse.ca/auto-ecolo/201205/11/01-4524568-fisker-arrive-a-montreal.php

Whats interesting is that they discuss the Canadian pricing of the car.

US = 106 00$
CAN = 115 000$

So a premium of 8.5% over the US price. Lets see if Tesla goes that deep on the Canadian premium...

Alex

[Local host]

I had a friend stop by the S on display at the Rideau Centre. She was told the price of the S was 60 - 90. I am not sure if that is before or after the Ontario EV tax credit.

[Doug_G]

I had a friend stop by the S on display at the Rideau Centre. She was told the price of the S was 60 - 90. I am not sure if that is before or after the Ontario EV tax credit.

That's just a ballpark - corporate hasn't spit out the final numbers yet.

[Doug_G]

Not sure if you guys saw this but an article came up on La Presse concerning the Fisker Karma

http://auto.lapresse.ca/auto-ecolo/201205/11/01-4524568-fisker-arrive-a-montreal.php

Whats interesting is that they discuss the Canadian pricing of the car.

US = 106 00$
CAN = 115 000$

So a premium of 8.5% over the US price. Lets see if Tesla goes that deep on the Canadian premium...

Alex

I hope not; unless they have a very good explanation for why it is so much more expensive to have daytime running lights, that is simply gouging.

[Jaff]

Agreed...Canadians are tired of hearing illogical arguments as to why U.S. manufactured goods cost more up here...


I hope not; unless they have a very good explanation for why it is so much more expensive to have daytime running lights, that is simply gouging.

[jerry33]

Compared to when I lived in Canada, 8.5% difference seems really good. It used to be 25%. Of course, there should be no difference.

[KBF]

CAD has been low lately. Its trending back to par again, but at this crucial time (I assume we'll see prices soon for the S), will this affect our chances of seeing comparable prices? Or is the rate totally irrelevant?

[Doug_G]

CAD has been low lately. Its trending back to par again, but at this crucial time (I assume we'll see prices soon for the S), will this affect our chances of seeing comparable prices? Or is the rate totally irrelevant?

For the last two years we've been losing a few cents on every dollar we make, and now that Tesla is setting their prices the Greece/Spain thing makes the exchange rate blip. :mad:

The fact that the pricing didn't get released with the Model S tour, as originally promised, makes me think they decided to hold off because of the blip. I really hope they're sensible about this.

[tomanik]

I asked about pricing yesterday with the tour here in Calgary, same story, they hope to have pricing announced soon.

[Jaff]

I still wish they had leasing though...

[Vger]

I think that the main determinant of Canadian delivery is Transport Canada. I asked if they (Tesla) had started the homologation process, and they said yes, but only recently. I think they had to wait for all the US approvals to come through first, then apply to TC. Hopefully the skids in Ottawa were greased by the Roadster, and things will go faster this time.

I also asked if CDN Sigs will overlap US Sigs. They said they hoped so.

[KBF]

I also asked if CDN Sigs will overlap US Sigs. They said they hoped so.

That would be great, since some of us have been waiting a reeeeeally long time! :) "Fair" is kind of irrelevant, but it would be fair to let at least the first few Canadians slip ahead of those who have only had signature deposits for a few months.

At the same time, I would be satisfied if we are at least ahead of the USA P's.

[Local host]

I found this article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/06/12/ottawa-car-price-disparity-border-shopping.html) interesting. It appears that most manufacturers try to screw us on their high end vehicles.

I am hoping Tesla is reasonable.

I wonder if they will have the same policy when it comes to Canadians purchasing cars in the US.

[ElSupreme]

I found this article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/06/12/ottawa-car-price-disparity-border-shopping.html) interesting. It appears that most manufacturers try to screw us on their high end vehicles.

I am hoping Tesla is reasonable.

I wonder if they will have the same policy when it comes to Canadians purchasing cars in the US.

I don't know if this makes you feel better or worse but I paid less for my German made car than someone in Germany pays for it.

Well they gripe about shipping costs, when it is common practice to aggregate the total cost of shipping across an entire market (all of Canada) and charge everyone the same costs. And with less car sales, a large country, and bad weather increasing shipping costs I can see it costing an extra $600 bucks for shipping.

As for base cost I think it mostly has to do with engineering Canadian regulation cars (more robust bumpers than US cars IIRC) and the higher priced models are also the lower volume models and thus the cost is more noticeable. I would also bet that some of the base cars are actually specified differently. I could see some cold weather options being on the base Canadian models while being left off the US models.

But I would probably agree that with all of that added in you are still probably paying more than USA people (because saying Americans in this context seems to not be technically correct).

[Jaff]

Remember though El, that the majority of the population of Canada lives within 100 miles of the Canada-U. S. Border...and that a good deal of this population is in Southern Ontario which is actually south of much U. S. Territory...many U. S. Model S vehicles will need cold weather capability as well.

It would be a good question for George B...I'd rather doubt that for North American Model S vehicles, that there is any difference between vehicles sold in the North or South...what would happen for Southern vehicles resold in the North?...I think it would be a nightmare to keep track of...

[znino]

Let me add my two cents worth. I fully agree with what everyone has been saying. There is no real reason to have any kind of large price difference. I swallowed it when i got my Roadster as they gave me a list of reasons (mainly duties) why I was paying a huge premium over the USA pricing but with the S being a production car, made in the USA I see no reason for this. I am nervous that we are end of June with still no pricing. I hold Canadian Signature #8 (R8) and today I got an email from Tesla Canada answering some questions I had asked. In response to when I can expect to be asked for my S configuration I was told they would not be locking in Canadian deliveries until the July-August time frame. I do not know how that translates to delivery of the car but I had always heard 3 months before delivery. This would push the first Signature deliveries in Canada to beginning of November if we assume 3 months and a August 1 lock in. Who knows, maybe the delay is not 3 months but the longer we do not have pricing, the more i feel the deliveries are NOT just around the corner and NOT 3 months after USA deliveries start as was touted all along (to me anyway!).

And in the same email today I was told that They will NOT be offering a lease program for at least 12-18 months as they ''want to preserve capital''. I have always leased my cars and prefer it immensely. I have always told them I needed leasing and this was the first I heard of the non-lease approach. I think they are making a mistake. Many people in the high end luxury car market are used to and expect to be able to lease for convenience. I am really not happy about this.

Anyway, I will wait and see when the lock-in email does come in and post the information here when I get it. Hope everyone else does the same.


Roadster 1281, S Signature 8 (Canada)

[Jaff]

I hear you on the lack of leasing and agree with you 100 % znino...they are making a mistake here imo...funny how Elon thanked Roadster owners at the ceremony delivering the first Model S...no leasing on the "S" is not a great way of showing it I think...

Edit...I think the 3 month difference between U. S. and Canadian production is still valid ... I think the time from lock in until delivery is somewhat variable.

[Robert.Boston]

The line "preserving capital" doesn't hold water. A leasing company would buy the Model S outright from Tesla Motors, acting as the middle-man. Tesla gets their cash, you get your car. Of course, this arrangement comes at a price to you, but there are many good reasons why this lease arrangements works well. It would not affect TSLA's income or balance sheet at all, if arranged properly.

[znino]

I hear you on the lack of leasing and agree with you 100 % znino...they are making a mistake here imo...funny how Elon thanked Roadster owners at the ceremony delivering the first Model S...no leasing on the "S" is not a great way of showing it I think...

Edit...I think the 3 month difference between U. S. and Canadian production is still valid ... I think the time from lock in until delivery is somewhat variable.

Let's hope you are right Jaff! Keep me posted if you hear anything about your lock-in.

[znino]

The line "preserving capital" doesn't hold water. A leasing company would buy the Model S outright from Tesla Motors, acting as the middle-man. Tesla gets their cash, you get your car. Of course, this arrangement comes at a price to you, but there are many good reasons why this lease arrangements works well. It would not affect TSLA's income or balance sheet at all, if arranged properly.

I agree with your Robert 100% and that is exactly what I wrote back to Tesla when I heard it. That's why I put Preserving Capital in quotes. It's a load of excuses IMO

[Doug_G]

I believe Tesla may have an issue with the percentage of foriegn content in the Model S, due to the Panasonic batteries among other things. If they can't demonstrate 50% North American content then we may have to pay import duty, like the Roadster. I would not be surprised if that was part of the reason for the delay in pricing.

[mnx]

What was the import duty on the roadster? 8%? That would be a bummer.

Hopefully we get our configure e-mails soon, all the videos/pics/reviews have me pretty excited for the car!


I believe Tesla may have an issue with the percentage of foriegn content in the Model S, due to the Panasonic batteries among other things. If they can't demonstrate 50% North American content then we may have to pay import duty, like the Roadster. I would not be surprised if that was part of the reason for the delay in pricing.

[Doug_G]

What was the import duty on the roadster? 8%? That would be a bummer.

Hopefully we get our configure e-mails soon, all the videos/pics/reviews have me pretty excited for the car!

The import duty is 6.1%. Pretty significant.

As for reviews, well, I gotta say I had high expectations for the car, and they were greatly exceeded. It was a real blast driving it... quite an amazing car!

[Vger]

I was told by someone at the Fremont event that the Canadian pricing will be out within three weeks. Count it down, folks!

[Vger]

I was told by someone at the Fremont event that the Canadian pricing will be out within three weeks. Count it down, folks!

Well, that three weeks has expired. Perhaps it is "delayed" just as apparently full production is. I hope on getting our car before New Year's Eve is fading...

[Spurkey]

I was told by someone at the Fremont event that the Canadian pricing will be out within three weeks. Count it down, folks!Funny, I was told exactly the same timeframe at the Seattle event. I suspect that's just their default answer. I was honestly disappointed with how unknowledgeable the staff were at the event - one of the many incorrect things they tried to tell me was that there would be no price difference between the US & Canada 'just like the Roadster'...

[brianman]

I hear "three weeks" is the new "two weeks" which was the new "this winter".

This is why I plan on November for my "September" ETA.

[Doug_G]

Funny, I was told exactly the same timeframe at the Seattle event. I suspect that's just their default answer. I was honestly disappointed with how unknowledgeable the staff were at the event - one of the many incorrect things they tried to tell me was that there would be no price difference between the US & Canada 'just like the Roadster'...

LOL I wish!!!

[Mogwai]

I will be quite happy is there is no pricing difference.

[Doug_G]

I will be quite happy is there is no pricing difference.

There will be... just question of how bad.

[Mogwai]

How do we know there will be a price difference?
I'm not too concerned with the price anyway, what bugs me is that Nova Scotia doesn't have any EV Incentives, so I won't be getting an $8k rebate like the folks in Ontario. The East coast always gets the shaft on everything. I doubt Tesla has even considered expanding the supercharger network out this way. I swear to god people think Canada ends in Quebec.

[njligernj]

How do we know there will be a price difference?

Probably just the fact that almost every company in recorded history tends to increase the price for Canada (and in many cases increase it far more than is required merely to account for exchange and the extra cost of crossing the border).


I'm not too concerned with the price anyway, what bugs me is that Nova Scotia doesn't have any EV Incentives, so I won't be getting an $8k rebate like the folks in Ontario. The East coast always gets the shaft on everything.

I contacted a number of people in the NS government about the incentives and most of them seemed unaware and/or uninterested in pursuing incentives.

I was surprised to see a new office building in Dartmouth (Burnside area) with a free EV charger for two cars in the parking lot the other day. Sadly it's not my office building but it was nice to see -- at least someone out there is planning for the future.

[Vger]

How do we know there will be a price difference?

Also, us Roadster owners suffered a significant uplift. I would have to check my records, but is was at least 15% higher than an equivalently configured US car of the same vintage.

[jason.auch]

Also, us Roadster owners suffered a significant uplift. I would have to check my records, but is was at least 15% higher than an equivalently configured US car of the same vintage.

I don't have my paper work handy, but it strikes me that it was closer to 25% more for the same car (sport). The US dollar and Canadian dollar were basically at par when I bought. They need to fix this with the Model S.

[Mogwai]

I was surprised to see a new office building in Dartmouth (Burnside area) with a free EV charger for two cars in the parking lot the other day. Sadly it's not my office building but it was nice to see -- at least someone out there is planning for the future.

That is rather nice to see free EV chargers, even if it's a single case. As I've stated in previous posts I don't plan on buying until 2014, so I'm hoping by then some incentives will be in the works, or at least on the way. Maybe if enough of us on the East coast band together we can get the government to implement incentives. In fact I think I'll go ahead and send Darrel Dexter an email requesting incentives. I know it's a long shot but if I'm not the only one emailing him about it than we'd stand a better chance.

As for the price increase, a 25% price increase on an $89k car (base model 85kw with pano roof, tech package, suspension, parcel shelf, paint armor and twin chargers + garage charger) will make my car come to a price of $111250. A 15% increase will make it a $102k car.

Might be cheaper to just head down to California and purchase strait from the manufacturing plant with USD and drive it back.

[Local host]

As for the price increase, a 25% price increase on an $89k car (base model 85kw with pano roof, tech package, suspension, parcel shelf, paint armor and twin chargers + garage charger) will make my car come to a price of $111250. A 15% increase will make it a $102k car.

Might be cheaper to just head down to California and purchase strait from the manufacturing plant with USD and drive it back.

This would put me out of the game. It's an increase over threshold that I just couldn't justify for a model x. I would certainly consider purchasing in US though. I have read that this can be a very difficult process. I wonder what Tesla's policy will be regarding selling to Canadians in the US.

[jason.auch]

A US purchase of a roadster was not an option.

[Mogwai]

This isn't fair. Our dollar is worth just as much as the American so why are we going to have to pay so much more? Combined with having much higher taxes than Americans and only 3 provinces have EV incentives, this is crazy.

And for the record, the figures I stated above were calculated after I added on the $7500 EV incentive that Tesla likes to deduct from their prices.

[Robert.Boston]

@Mogwai: because Transport Canada imposes many costs on a car company to certify the car for sale in Canada, and Tesla quite reasonably is spreading that cost out among Canadian purchasers. Canada also assesses import tariffs, which again are being passed along to you.

Further, double-check against the fully taxed U.S. cost; because each state charges a different sales tax, the quoted US price will have state sales taxes tacked on top (except in a few states where EVs aren't taxed). I'm not sure whether Tesla is quoting a pre- or post-tax rate in Canada.

[Mogwai]

@Mogwai: because Transport Canada imposes many costs on a car company to certify the car for sale in Canada, and Tesla quite reasonably is spreading that cost out among Canadian purchasers. Canada also assesses import tariffs, which again are being passed along to you.

Further, double-check against the fully taxed U.S. cost; because each state charges a different sales tax, the quoted US price will have state sales taxes tacked on top (except in a few states where EVs aren't taxed). I'm not sure whether Tesla is quoting a pre- or post-tax rate in Canada.

The prices I calculated did not include US tax. I was reading up on purchasing cars in the US and bringing them back to Canada, and from what I read, most people agree that the amount of money you save is worth the hassle. I understand that Tesla is making us pay for Transport Canadas costs, import tariffs and US tax, but I can't help but feel they will be adding money on top of all those costs so they are making profits for their trouble.

I guess I'm just a little bummed as buying this car in 2 years is starting to look a little far fetched. I even tried building a 60kw model (with the tech pkg, suspension, parcel shelf, paint armor, wallcharger +twin chargers) and it still came out to a $101k purchase (if price increased by 25%). That's $31k up from a $79k car. And I'm really not interested in buying a car that uses fuel anymore. I might be over exaggerating but Tesla pretty much rendered ICE cars obsolete. If I go out and by a VW TDI, I'll get great fuel economy, but in 10 years or so I can't see too many ICE cars on the road, let alone having decent resell value.

Maybe I'll just have to get a $20k autoloan to pay for the rest of the tesla for whatever I save up for it. It would be areal bummer though.

[Doug_G]

Robert, Tesla is quoting a before-tax price in Canada. The government many years ago eliminated "hidden" taxes like the old manufacturer's sales tax, and replace it with a value-added tax called GST (or HST in provinces that have harmonized their taxes with the federal government).

If the vehicle doesn't qualify as made in North America under NAFTA rules, then a 6.1% import duty will apply. That will be "hidden" in the price except I'm sure Tesla will tell you if asked (as they did for the Roadster).

Yes there is a cost associated with homologation; however, Canadian standards are pretty close to the US standards. The car already has daytime running lights; they just have to disable the touchscreen switch so you can't turn them off. It already has pedestrian-friendly bumpers. There could possibly be some other "non-legal" differences due to things like 3G access (different service providers here). But it's questionable in my mind how you account for homologation; it's a cost-of-doing-business thing, like designing the car in the first place.

The other thing they might do is charge more than the US dollar exchange rate, as a hedge against exchange movements - like they did for the Roadster.

Of course if they overdo the price, they will end up not selling very many vehicles.

[Mogwai]

Doug_G I just read in a CBC news post (article here (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2010/05/28/con-tesla-canada.html)) that the Canadian price of the Roadster is $125k (I'm assuming that's base model). I read somewhere else that the base price in America was $109k, so an increase of $16k on a $109k car is no where near the 25% mark I've been calculating. I used that figure because someone else in this thread said that was the price increase on the Roadster.

Maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a molehill. Tesla isn't stupid either they must know if they charge us $130k for a car you can get for $100k south of the border, people are going to reconsider their purchase.

[Doug_G]

Doug_G I just read in a CBC news post (article here (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2010/05/28/con-tesla-canada.html)) that the Canadian price of the Roadster is $125k (I'm assuming that's base model). I read somewhere else that the base price in America was $109k, so an increase of $16k on a $109k car is no where near the 25% mark I've been calculating. I used that figure because someone else in this thread said that was the price increase on the Roadster.

Maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a molehill. Tesla isn't stupid either they must know if they charge us $130k for a car you can get for $100k south of the border, people are going to reconsider their purchase.

Yes, the increase was 15%. IMHO they were excessively conservative with the exchange rate, which was higher in the first place, plus the Roadster was hit with the 6.1% import duty.

These days exchange rates float around parity +/- 2%. If the markup on the Model S is anywhere near that high I will be rather displeased.

[Jaff]

+1,000,000 ...:cursing:


Yes, the increase was 15%. IMHO they were excessively conservative with the exchange rate, which was higher in the first place, plus the Roadster was hit with the 6.1% import duty.

These days exchange rates float around parity +/- 2%. If the markup on the Model S is anywhere near that high I will be rather displeased.

[Doug_G]

From 2012/07/25 Q2 2012 QA Conf Call notes (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9466-2012-07-25-Q2-2012-Q-amp-A-Conf-Call-notes?p=167035)


["How are reservations converting into final order numbers?"]
Elon:
12,200 reservations
George:
~1,000 fully configured, finalized, locked in
Invited Sig in U.S. only.
About 10 days ago, first group of general production U.S.
This week, next traunch of general production U.S.
Then Canada Sig, Canada general production.

Sounds like they are going to build a couple of "traunches" of US general production before any Canadian cars, including Signature. We've been pushed back, I think. Suggests maybe our emails are a couple of weeks out.

[brianman]

@Doug_G -- I think one of the other threads on the forum has it right: homologation is the obstacle. I think once that is addressed, they'll immediately jump to a traunch for the 146 Canadian sigs.

[Mogwai]

@Doug_G -- I think one of the other threads on the forum has it right: homologation is the obstacle. I think once that is addressed, they'll immediately jump to a traunch for the 146 Canadian sigs.

Can you tell me what homologation is? I tried searching up the definition, but I never really got a clear answer.

[Doug_G]

Can you tell me what homologation is? I tried searching up the definition, but I never really got a clear answer.

That's making the car conform to local regulations. Canadian regulations are very similar to USA but there are some important differences.

[Mogwai]

That's making the car conform to local regulations. Canadian regulations are very similar to USA but there are some important differences.

Right on, thanks Doug.

[KBF]

From 2012/07/25 Q2 2012 QA Conf Call notes (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9466-2012-07-25-Q2-2012-Q-amp-A-Conf-Call-notes?p=167035)


Sounds like they are going to build a couple of "traunches" of US general production before any Canadian cars, including Signature. We've been pushed back, I think. Suggests maybe our emails are a couple of weeks out.

Because they were talking about locking in, theoretically Canadian Sigs could still have a shorter "lock-in to delivery" timeframe; unlikely but possible. It sounds like the ramp up is quite exponential... If there really is only a couple of weeks between Signature and production, if I was reasonable I should drop back to P. We haven't heard what perks Canadian Sigs are getting; for example our telecom companies are usually jerks to work with, who knows if we even get free data for a year. But seriously, if there are USA P's produced, I want to be able to get whatever color I want.

[mnx]

Because they were talking about locking in, theoretically Canadian Sigs could still have a shorter "lock-in to delivery" timeframe; unlikely but possible. It sounds like the ramp up is quite exponential...

That would make me keep my sig reservation. After all the only reason I upgraded was to get the car sooner.... From the conf call it sounds like they might be producing the CDN P's right after the CDN sigs...



If there really is only a couple of weeks between Signature and production, if I was reasonable I should drop back to P. We haven't heard what perks Canadian Sigs are getting; for example our telecom companies are usually jerks to work with, who knows if we even get free data for a year.

If I was reasonable I would drop back to general production as well.



But seriously, if there are USA P's produced, I want to be able to get whatever color I want.

Ditto! Although in the end I'll probably go with white, so no big deal...

[kbeckley]

Hi all,

In a correspondence with Hans recently he indicated they are aiming for October start of delivery but I told him I only wanted a ballpark estimate and I wouldn't hold him to it. :-)

At the upcoming test drive in Toronto I expect they are going to get asked "when and how much" by everyone. I hope they have some answers. I am really nervous about the pricing based on the Roadster experience. I really want to keep my Sig 29 place but if the pricing is so out of whack with the US price I will bail on principle. The Sig already has a built in premium over the non-sig car and another premium over the US pricing will be too hard to swallow. In reality all of us Sig buyers are already braking the rule of "don't buy a new model in its first year" and I expect some issues - more than willing to deal with that but being soaked on price for the privileged will hurt.

I don't want to sound too negative - I have been advocating for this company for years to anyone who will listen. I am excited about the test drive in a week and (hopefully) get my car this fall but my enthusiasm is continuously tempered by my worries about what they will do with the Canadian pricing. We shall see.

[Mogwai]

I'm assuming all you guys are verteran car owners. I've got some questions about car loans.
I've never had a car before and I'm trying to save up for a Tesla by 2014, but I don't think that will be enough time. So I'm thinking I might have to get a car loan to pay for the last $20k, but I'm not sure how well that would go.

Basically my question is, if you guys had the option of buying a decent ICE car (2014 VW Passat TDI) and being debt free, or purchasing an all electric Tesla and putting yourself $20k in the hole, what would you choose? I might be thinking out of whack but I really think that it would just be stupid to buy an ICE car now.

[brianman]

That's a very interesting question, Mogwai. Can you refine it a little bit? More specifically, which Model S configuration are you considering (key points of interest are battery size, perf/non-perf, and total $)?

[Mogwai]

That's a very interesting question, Mogwai. Can you refine it a little bit? More specifically, which Model S configuration are you considering (key points of interest are battery size, perf/non-perf, and total $)?

Well I'd really like Perf but I think that's going to be way to far out of my price range and I'd be more than happy to have the 85kw base model (with pano roof, tech pack, air suspension, parcel shelf and twin chargers + high power charger).

That said, I'd settle for the 60kw with the same configurations. 40kw is out of the question.

Mind you, on top of the price of the car I'm also going to need an additional $5000 for registration and insurance. I could be way off with that number but since I've not had a license for very long my insurance is going to be high, and I'm fine with that. I will want to get full coverage though so the $5000 is a high estimate.

[brianman]

Hopefully that's enough for our financially savvy forum members to offer some useful guidance. (I'm not one of them. :( )

[Mogwai]

Hopefully that's enough for our financially savor forum members to offer some useful guidance. (I'm not one of them. :( )

Well assuming there is a 25% increase in price (again, a high estimate which I almost expect to be lower) the price of the 85kw would come to $111k, and the price of the 60kw would come to$101k. So I pretty much think I'll be able to get to about $80k in 2 years. I could get enough to pay in full but I'm not sure how everything will play out.

[Mogwai]

I suppose the real question here is, would the money I spend on gas in a month be equal to or greater than the payments I would make on a loan. Or vice versa.

[mnx]

hmmm, I would never dream of buying a Tesla as my first car. My first car was 2500$, it was a 12 year old nissan maxima...

I vote for spending within your means... Especially on something like a car that depreciates so quickly.


I'm assuming all you guys are verteran car owners. I've got some questions about car loans.
I've never had a car before and I'm trying to save up for a Tesla by 2014, but I don't think that will be enough time. So I'm thinking I might have to get a car loan to pay for the last $20k, but I'm not sure how well that would go.

Basically my question is, if you guys had the option of buying a decent ICE car (2014 VW Passat TDI) and being debt free, or purchasing an all electric Tesla and putting yourself $20k in the hole, what would you choose? I might be thinking out of whack but I really think that it would just be stupid to buy an ICE car now.

[Steph]

hmmm, I would never dream of buying a Tesla as my first car. My first car was 2500$, it was a 12 year old nissan maxima...

I vote for spending within your means... Especially on something like a car that depreciates so quickly.

Best advise yet.

[brianman]

[Regarding first vehicle...]
I'll throw it out there for consideration: How 'bout starting with a used roadster if he really wants a Tesla as a high priority?

[Vger]

Ranging back on topic:

I distinctly heard George B on the Q2 investor conference call cite an almost timetable for Canadian lock-ins. I found the quote on the Seeking Alpha transcript of the call:


We have invited the signature reservation holders in the U.S. only to configure. And then we went out about 10 days ago, give or take, to our first group of general production people, sending out the email saying it’s time to build your Model S. And then this week we’ll go out to the next tranche of general production U.S. And then we’ll proceed from there to Canada signature, then Canada general production. So just to be clear here, we haven’t gone out to 12,000 people and said, configure your car. We’re doing it in sequential order based upon when they made their reservation. And as of today, we’ll be about 1,000 fully configured cars that people have finalized their options and everything on.

[Bold emphasis mine]


That seems to imply that Canadian Signature reservation holders could be one to two weeks away from getting invited to lock-in, and that Canadian P folks would be a week or two after that! Thanks George B for some encouragement for your northern neighbours, eh!

[Mogwai]

I understand peoples reasoning with spending within my means. However I will be going to school for Sustainable Energy Engineering, so an all electric car really goes in line with my chosen career path.

However I will take the whole "spend within your means" concept into serious consideration. I suppose it would put me quite far ahead of the game if I could come out of school with $60k, $70k or even $80k, instead of being that much money in the hole.

[Vger]

However I will take the whole "spend within your means" concept into serious consideration.

Perhaps the Tesla Gen III will be perfect for you when it arrives in 2-3 years... It may be a perfect young person's eco-barn-burner.

[jerry33]

Basically my question is, if you guys had the option of buying a decent ICE car (2014 VW Passat TDI)

You couldn't pay me enough to have another TDI. Horrible car. 22 cents (U.S.) per mile for dealer maintenance over the 95,000 miles I kept it. Engine blew at 80,000 miles (covered under warranty so not included in the 22 cents/mile). Every fill was a smelly mess, and you had to park it outside because if you started it in the garage you couldn't go in the garage for some time--never again.

[njligernj]

Little bit OT but then again until we get actual pricing we don't have a lot to talk about ...


Basically my question is, if you guys had the option of buying a decent ICE car (2014 VW Passat TDI) and being debt free, or purchasing an all electric Tesla and putting yourself $20k in the hole, what would you choose? I might be thinking out of whack but I really think that it would just be stupid to buy an ICE car now.

First off there are lots of people here who are going to be more than $20k in the hole after they get their S/X. While you are young if you can in fact save that much to put down you would be ahead of a LOT of people here. That said, is that money better spent on a house or invested? Almost certainly. But that's your choice. As for the ICE car I'd agree with avoiding the TDI as someone else mentioned. You could get an Fusion Energi or some hybrid/plug-in/ice which while not all-electric is at least a step in the right direction and still have enough cash left over to have a head-start. I don't know what the market is like in that job field you've chosen but it's relatively rough out there right now in general -- a decent nest egg while you're looking for work wouldn't be a terrible idea. It could be a LOT longer than you think to find work. Then, if you're lucky enough to hit a good job with a good salary maybe then you could pull the trigger on the Tesla.

[Mogwai]

Little bit OT but then again until we get actual pricing we don't have a lot to talk about ...



First off there are lots of people here who are going to be more than $20k in the hole after they get their S/X. While you are young if you can in fact save that much to put down you would be ahead of a LOT of people here. That said, is that money better spent on a house or invested? Almost certainly. But that's your choice. As for the ICE car I'd agree with avoiding the TDI as someone else mentioned. You could get an Fusion Energi or some hybrid/plug-in/ice which while not all-electric is at least a step in the right direction and still have enough cash left over to have a head-start. I don't know what the market is like in that job field you've chosen but it's relatively rough out there right now in general -- a decent nest egg while you're looking for work wouldn't be a terrible idea. It could be a LOT longer than you think to find work. Then, if you're lucky enough to hit a good job with a good salary maybe then you could pull the trigger on the Tesla.

Another option I was considering was to buy a house and rent it. Then I could mortgage it, buy a Tesla and pay for the mortgage with the profits I make from renting it. I'll be going to school for Sustainable Energy Engineering in 2014, so I wouldn't actually be able to enter the field until 2016ish.

I might end up making more money than I think I will I think I'm just pointlessly fretting over my dreams. Another member raised a good point to me as well, that by 2014 we will likely have a lot more info about the Gen III, and that might just be a better option for me. That said, I think the Model S is going to be a hell of a car and I doubt many people will be disappointed in their purchase.

[strider]

To get this back on track, over in another thread Dr. Computer posted a pic of a Model S window sticker and it says "US/CANADA PARTS CONTENT 55%" so that should qualify under NAFTA right?
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8233&d=1343437424

[KBF]

To get this back on track, over in another thread Dr. Computer posted a pic of a Model S window sticker and it says "US/CANADA PARTS CONTENT 55%" so that should qualify under NAFTA right?
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8233&d=1343437424

That looks promising. It notes that this does not include final assembly, delivery, etc., all of which would increase USA %, correct?

[mnx]

Hopefully they will announce pricing this week, with the Get Amped tour coming to Toronto and all..

[Jaff]

Amen to that mnx...thanks for posting that info strider... :smile:



Hopefully they will announce pricing this week, with the Get Amped tour coming to Toronto and all..

[mnx]

It would would really make my week if they:

a) announced pricing
and
b) sent out finalize your order e-mails...

[Jaff]

c) ...gave us a discount because of the prolonged wait... :wink::biggrin:

[Doug_G]

d) ...gave us a discount because we weren't able to take advantage of the $10,000 Signature discount they gave to Roadster owners in the USA (this was discontinued before the Signature was ever offered in Canada). (That said, I suspect the extra deposit deferment was supposed to offset this somewhat.)

[mnx]

looks like finalize your order e-mails have gone out this week, and we're not included again. (at least I'm not)... :(

from the finalize your order thread:
"I'm REGULAR PRODUCTION #957, and I just got my "It's Time to Build" email. Looking forward to my Dallas test drive before I line up my ducks.

Andy"

[Doug_G]

During the investor conference call, they said that there would be two "tranches" of American P emails going out, and then they would do Canadian S and P reservation holders after that. So I'm assuming it will happen in a couple of weeks. Maybe we'll even have pricing.

[brianman]

@mnx

I presumed ( homologation, pricing, finalize ) is the sequence for each market individually.

I don't have a gut instinct on whether Canadian sigs will "jump ahead" of U.S. R & P in the factory line if Canadian H,P,F finishes fast enough for that to be possible; and I don't think Tesla has officially commented on it either.

[KBF]

@mnx

I presumed ( homologation, pricing, finalize ) is the sequence for each market individually.

I don't have a gut instinct on whether Canadian sigs will "jump ahead" of U.S. R & P in the factory line if Canadian H,P,F finishes fast enough for that to be possible; and I don't think Tesla has officially commented on it either.

Tesla's been silent lately regarding this. Last I heard Cdn. Sigs were supposed to be before R and P, but my most recent inquiries to Hans have gone unanswered. Not even an email saying, "I can't comment on that yet". I assume our bureaucracy is doing what bureaucracy does best.

[KBF]

Psst - Tesla: CAD is at par with the USD.

[brianman]

Oh, hey, I didn't notice 'til now...

We'll know pretty quickly when Canadian S1 gets the call as long as KBF stays around. :)

[KBF]

Oh, hey, I didn't notice 'til now...

We'll know pretty quickly when Canadian S1 gets the call as long as KBF stays around. :)

I have a slight TMC addiction. I blame it on serious delayed gratification side effects. :wink:

[Kipernicus]

I have a slight TMC addiction. I blame it on serious delayed gratification side effects. :wink:

Don't we all....

[Doug_G]

Oh, hey, I didn't notice 'til now...

We'll know pretty quickly when Canadian S1 gets the call as long as KBF stays around. :)

KBF do you have a Roadster, i.e. is that Signature Special #1?

[KBF]

KBF do you have a Roadster, i.e. is that Signature Special #1?

No, you and a dozen or so others are ahead of me. I wish I had a Roadster, but I got an electric motorcycle instead. (cheaper, works for my commute)

[Vger]

Some encouraging words from Hans today:


All Roadster owners will receive their Signature Series before non-Roadster owners. I've been told two more weeks for CDN pricing and that it will be fair and transparent and not an incentive to import from the US.

[Jeeps17]

Some encouraging words from Hans today:

Encouraging indeed, but cautiously so.

Ball is in Tesla's court... Let's hope they don't drop it!

[KBF]

So was he saying that Canadian SSL's would get theirs before Canadian S's (which we already knew), or was he saying that Canadian SSL's would get theirs before USA P's (or before USA regular Sigs)? That's all quite different...

[mnx]

I would guess cad SSL before cad sig... But like you said we already knew that.

It'd be nice to get the CAD sigs out before some of the US P's who have now locked in... The latest round of lock in's in the finalize your order date thread are now indicating December deliveries...



So was he saying that Canadian SSL's would get theirs before Canadian S's (which we already knew), or was he saying that Canadian SSL's would get theirs before USA P's (or before USA regular Sigs)? That's all quite different...

[KBF]

Based on recent correspondence I am quite sure that once the prices are set, we will receive our "time to design" emails quickly. There have been a lot of people panicking around here lately (in general) and it's easy to slip towards that when a little official information is being overtaken by a lot of speculation. I have to keep reminding myself that Tesla is not trying to be the same as other auto makers.

[KBF]

I'll throw in another nudge to Tesla though: CAD trading at more than a half a cent over par now, and rising... :)

I don't do currency trading, but did someone mention a way for Tesla to take advantage of current prices so they can reduce risk from currency fluctuations later?

[Doug_G]

I'll throw in another nudge to Tesla though: CAD trading at more than a half a cent over par now, and rising... :)

Yes, it's going back to "normal". Unfortunately. My company gets most of its revenue in US dollars.


I don't do currency trading, but did someone mention a way for Tesla to take advantage of current prices so they can reduce risk from currency fluctuations later?

There is something called "currency hedging".

[mnx]

I'll throw in another nudge to Tesla though: CAD trading at more than a half a cent over par now, and rising... :)

I don't do currency trading, but did someone mention a way for Tesla to take advantage of current prices so they can reduce risk from currency fluctuations later?

Absolutely! They could lock in a current rate via a forward, or they could buy puts (to limit downside exposure).

[Zapped]

Wonder if us Canadians could pay in US dollars.
Could convert when the price is right

[CurrieG]

I asked if we could pay in US$ at the Get Amped tour last week and was told No... We have to pay in CND$. I was also told again, that CDN pricing should be out in a few weeks....

Currie - (CDN Signature Res #146)

[Jgdixon]

Is anyone else concerned that American regular production customers are getting notices to configure their cars?
Meanwhile to my knowledge there aren't even any Canadian Signature reservations that have had those emails.
oOfcourse no pricing yet is probably the main reason.

[Doug_G]

Pricing has been two weeks away all summer.

[KBF]

It has to be Transport Canada holding things up. They probably have questions about things like the parking brake and the bureacracy slows everything down. So far we haven't passed the window of opportunity for getting our cars "late fall". I'm hopeful. Too bad there's nothing we can do to help speed up the process...

[Zapped]

It has to be Transport Canada holding things up. .
When I checked with my insurance co on coverage premiums in June 2012, they had the Telsa Roadster listed but not the Model S.
Not sure of the insurers are tied into a database run by Transport Canada that might indicate it is an insurable automobile in Canada.
Perhaps that would provide some indication when it's allowed to be shipped.

CND Sig # 135

[mnx]

I'm not concerned but i am very eager to get my S especially now that i've driven it. :) If this week passes with no news.it would be.nice to get an update from Tesla with where things are at.


Is anyone else concerned that American regular production customers are getting notices to configure their cars?
Meanwhile to my knowledge there aren't even any Canadian Signature reservations that have had those emails.
oOfcourse no pricing yet is probably the main reason.

[Jaff]

I just checked with the D of C Gen Insurance Co...they do not currently have a code for the Model S.

The CSR I spoke with will contact the VICC (Vehicle Information Center of Canada) to ask when a code is coming.

Hopefully will know something later this week.



When I checked with my insurance co on coverage premiums in June 2012, they had the Telsa Roadster listed but not the Model S.
Not sure of the insurers are tied into a database run by Transport Canada that might indicate it is an insurable automobile in Canada.
Perhaps that would provide some indication when it's allowed to be shipped.

CND Sig # 135

[Jaff]

Ok. hot off the press...

The VICC car code for the base Model S is 4001...the code for the Sigs is 4002.

In Ontario, if you give this car code to your broker, they should be able to calaculate an annual premium for you

The corresponding rate groups for the base models are as follows...AB 1 / collision 32 / dcpd 37 / comp 37...

The corresponding rate groups for the Sigs are AB 1 / collision 38 / dcpd 38 / comp 46

For comparison, the rate groups on my 2010 Roadster are as follows...AB 1 / collision 29 / dcpd 46 / comp 46

The above mentioned rate groups for my Roadster create an annual premium of $135.00 / month or $1,620 / yr.

I found it interesting that they are differentiating between the base and Sig models, but not between the base and performance models...

[mnx]

Let's hope we get some pricing and get to configure our cars soon then... :)


Ok. hot off the press...

The VICC car code for the base Model S is 4001...the code for the Sigs is 4002.

In Ontario, if you give this car code to your broker, they should be able to calaculate an annual premium for you

The corresponding rate groups for the base models are as follows...AB 1 / collision 32 / dcpd 37 / comp 37...

The corresponding rate groups for the Sigs are AB 1 / collision 38 / dcpd 38 / comp 46

For comparison, the rate groups on my 2010 Roadster are as follows...AB 1 / collision 29 / dcpd 46 / comp 46

The above mentioned rate groups for my Roadster create an annual premium of $135.00 / month or $1,620 / yr.

I found it interesting that they are differentiating between the base and Sig models, but not between the base and performance models...

[Vger]

Ok. hot off the press...

I found it interesting that they are differentiating between the base and Sig models, but not between the base and performance models...

Excellent! Thanks for looking into this. It looks like the Model S will be a little cheaper to insure, but not a lot.

I think they might be screwed up on the Base/Sig/Perf distinction. The only reason to price the Sig differently is because of the bundled options and higher base price. The performance model, on the other hand, should increase actuarial risk (potential for crazier driving).

[Jaff]

Agree Vger...makes little sense to me seeing that the major difference is the time frame in which you receive your vehicle...:biggrin:

Also, what are there...200 Sigs in Canada?...in a very short time, the Performance Models will out number the Sigs.

However, I have always felt that the auto insurance industry under estimated the Roadster...the CF body on the Roadster should equate to a far higher rate group for collision than 29...it should exceed the Model S rate collision group by a significant margin....the differences in the base / Sig rate groups for comp (37 to 46) also seem unwarranted...




Excellent! Thanks for looking into this. It looks like the Model S will be a little cheaper to insure, but not a lot.

I think they might be screwed up on the Base/Sig/Perf distinction. The only reason to price the Sig differently is because of the bundled options and higher base price. The performance model, on the other hand, should increase actuarial risk (potential for crazier driving).

[Doug_G]

From the Latest "Finalize your order" date (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8290-Latest-quot-Finalize-your-order-quot-date/page89?p=174680#post174680) thread:


#2823 Got the call today!!


I asked and they told me Late December to early January.

Wow, they're almost up to P3000 in the USA, and yet none of us have been contacted. :scared:

[Tommy]

From the Latest "Finalize your order" date (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8290-Latest-quot-Finalize-your-order-quot-date/page89?p=174680#post174680) thread:





Wow, they're almost up to P3000 in the USA, and yet none of us have been contacted. :scared:

Wouldn't surprise me if Tesla doesn't have slots set aside for our Sig Friends to the north and once pricing is announced, Tesla will use to get all Sigs in the proper sequence. Just trying to calm fears. :smile:

[Vger]

Agreed, sort of. I think that the main hold is still homologation. They are probably holding the pricing for some milestone (if not completion) of homologation, just in case TC makes them do something expensive to clear the car. I suspect that everything will go really fast once Ottawa signs off-- pricing, lock-ins, builds, delivery could all flow within a few weeks. My fantasy is that the Canadian Sigs (or at least Sig Specials, like me) will jump into the production queue as soon as we are priced and locked-in, and we will jump over some of the previously locked-in U.S. P cars. I am not counting on it, but here's to hoping! :smile:

[Adm]

Just in by email:


Tesla Motors Announces Canadian Pricing for Model S





PALO ALTO, CA -- (Marketwire) -- 08/15/12 -- Tesla Motors (NASDAQ: TSLA) today announced pricing for Model S in Canada. Canadian customers can choose from one of three battery pack sizes, with the base 40 kWh battery pack Model S starting at $64,500 Canadian dollars (CAD) before provincial tax rebates, as may be available. Model S with the 60 kWh battery pack and 85 kWh battery pack will start at $75,200 and $85,900 CAD respectively.

"Pricing in foreign markets can be very complex, so we have taken a very straightforward, transparent approach to pricing Model S," said George Blankenship, vice president worldwide sales and ownership experience. "Canadian base prices start with U.S. pricing, plus 6.1 percent for import duties and an additional 1.5 to 2 percent, depending upon the model, for incremental transportation costs and country specific business expenses. The total is then adjusted using the current mid-term currency exchange rate."

Option pricing has also been kept very straightforward. In Canada, all models will include heated seats and choice of décor as standard equipment. Model S in Canada will also include the game-changing 17" touchscreen, 19" wheels and a Mobile Connector with three adapters as standard equipment. Tesla's Canadian pricing configurator, showing all pricing and options, will be available on its website in the near future.

With the most energy-dense battery pack in the industry and best-in-class aerodynamics, Model S has the longest range of any production electric car in the world. Model S comes with three battery pack options to fit the unique needs of different drivers. The 85 kWh Model S has received a U.S. fuel economy rating of 89MPGe and a range of 265 miles from the U.S. EPA. Fuel economy ratings from Environment Canada are still pending.

Model S is the first premium sedan designed from the ground up to take full advantage of electric vehicle architecture. A revolutionary powertrain sits under the floorboard of Model S, creating an ultra-low center of gravity. Paired with an aluminum body engineered for superior handling, Tesla has created a vehicle that will raise the bar for vehicle handling and efficiency while meeting the highest standards for safety.

Without an internal combustion engine or transmission tunnel, the interior of Model S has more cargo space than any other sedan in its class and includes a second trunk under the hood. Model S seats five adults and two children in optional rear-facing child seats. The Performance Model S accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in as little as 4.4 seconds. The interior features a 17" in-dash touchscreen with internet capabilities, allowing for streaming radio, web browsing and navigation.

More than 12,200 reservations have been made worldwide for Model S. Deliveries to Canadian customers will begin later this year. Meanwhile, Tesla will be opening its first new-design Canadian store in Toronto this November. Customers can reserve a Model S at one of Tesla's retail stores or online.

About Tesla
Tesla's goal is to accelerate the world's transition to electric mobility. Palo Alto, California-based Tesla designs and manufactures EVs and EV power train components for partners such as Toyota and Daimler. Tesla has delivered more than 2,350 Roadsters to customers worldwide. Model S, the first premium sedan to be built from the ground up as an electric vehicle, began deliveries in June 2012.

Forward-Looking Statements
Certain statements in this press release, including statements regarding the characteristics and performance of Model S, future store openings in Canada and information regarding Model S handling, efficiency and safety, are "forward-looking statements" that are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations. Various important factors could cause actual results to differ materially, including the risks identified in our SEC filings. Tesla disclaims any obligation to update this information.

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Media Contact

Shanna Hendriks

Tesla Motors

650-681-5179

[microsurf]

I guess that's about what I expected. At least in Ontario there currently exists an $8500 tax credit for EVs ( Quebec - $8,000, British Columbia -$5,000). This brings the base model to $56,000. It sucks we have to pay more, but we're used to that.

Now, it's just a matter of saving my loonies.

[PaulM]

U.S. pricing, plus 6.1 percent for import duties Why would they have to pay the 6.1% import duty? That only applies to cars which aren't manufactured in North-America.

[mnx]

Horray! Hopefully we get the e-mail to config next week. :)

[mnx]

Why would they have to pay the 6.1% import duty? That only applies to cars which aren't manufactured in North-America.

Batteries represent a signifigant cost of the car and they are made in Japan by panasonic... :(

[Jgdixon]

Remember when comparing to the US pricing, their's has the federal tax rebate of $7500 already deducted. These prices are before any provincial rebate. (Ontario $8500) When I do my calculations it is more than the 6.1% and the 1 to 2% over the US

[clea]

and to compare apples to apples we need to consider that the nappa leather seats are now included ...

from http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/models/options

Included Upgrades

Nappa leather interior with choice of color and décor

[Jgdixon]

and to compare apples to apples we need to consider that the nappa leather seats are now included ...

from http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/models/options

Included Upgrades

Nappa leather interior with choice of color and décor

Ah, I missed that. That accounts for almost all the difference. So it appears they have priced it almost at par.
(other than the 6.1 and 2%)

[microsurf]

With the leather, it almost works out. ((49,900 + 7500 + 1500)*1.061)*1.02 = 63742. The CND price is $64,500.

In Ontario the price after tax credit is closer to working out as there is $1000 extra tax credit over the $7500 American one.

((49,900 + 1500)*1.061)*1.02 = $55626 USD vs 64,500-8500 = $56,000 CAD.

[microsurf]

All the options are pricier too. Except for the $250 Parcel Shelf. WOOT!

[Doug_G]

Remember when comparing to the US pricing, their's has the federal tax rebate of $7500 already deducted. These prices are before any provincial rebate. (Ontario $8500) When I do my calculations it is more than the 6.1% and the 1 to 2% over the US

Signature Performance US Price is $97,900 + $7,500 (because they include the rebate). Multiply by 1.061 for duty (grrr!) and 1.02 for exchange rate (could be worse) we get $114,066. Canadian list price is $114,300. Pretty close - suggests an exchange rate of 2.21%.

With the Ontario rebate the price will effectively be $105,800.

Don't forget to add delivery charges, HST, air conditioner tax, and tire tax.

It's disappointing that we have to pay import duty. At least they didn't completely hose us on the exchange rate - the Roadster was a lot worse.

[mnx]

The options page says signature deliveries begin late 2012... can't wait!

Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/models/options)

[clea]

The options page says signature deliveries begin late 2012... can't wait!

Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/models/options)

it says that even for the general production cars ... need to have some grains of salt handy until we get some people finalizing their purchase agreements and get some delivery date estimates.

[Doug_G]

Interesting point for the non-signature, non-performance Model S - it looks like all Canadian cars come with 12-way adjustable heated seats. Including cloth seats. No extra charge. Also it appears that you can choose your interior color; the Americans are limited to Piano Black.

Doesn't make any difference if you're getting Performance and/or Signature, of course.

[Prime Mover]

Just saw Hans, Eli and Lisa at Yorkdale Mall in Toronto where they are displaying a Black Model S Beta outside the Apple Store.
Lots of interest from shoppers and great news that Canadian pricing is finally announced (that must make their sales discussions with potential customers a lot easier)!

I am hopeful that the plan is still to deliver the 200 Canadian Sigs right after the 1000 Sig US run. Late October is my prediction (expectation/anticipation/begging-wish) for delivery to me.
I think we will see our "Time to Configure" emails soon as Tesla will then be able to lock-down all the $40K deposits from Canada and get ready to build!!!

[brianman]

In Canada, all models will include heated seats and choice of décor as standard equipment.
This is worthy of its own thread.

[KBF]

It seems like they really want Canadians to get P's, if they're not charging for leather that Sig premium is rising quickly!

[KBF]

It looks like a bit of a premium on all the options. Too bad today is my "work outside of the home day"... I should get back to work! Once I crunch the numbers I may be switching to P. If the battery is the cause of the duty, I'll gladly buy a 0 kWh battery and buy the battery separately from the car. No reason I can see that this isn't possible, but I'm no lawyer. :wink:

[Jgdixon]

Here is a direct response from George over at the Tesla site forums.

gblankenship | August 15, 2012Hi everyone. There seems to be a bit of confusion surrounding this issue.
Brian H, you are correct.
pbrulott, unfortunately, all cars manufactured in North America cannot be imported into Canada duty free. In order to be duty free, a minimum percentage of the car must be made in North America. Model S falls slightly below that percentage, so our cars cannot be brought into Canada duty free. We must pay the 6.1% import duty. We do not have a choice. That is the only reason why we are including it in our pricing.
I hope this helps make things a little clearer regarding the 6.1%.
Regarding the overall math, here's how we see the build up:
US Base price
+ $1,500 USD for interior upgrade
+ 6.1% duty
+ 1.5% to 2% for incremental transportation and business costs
Then convert this total using a mid-term currency conversion rate
That's the way we did it.

[mknox]

The model I'm interested in is a fully loaded 85 kWh Production job minus the 21" wheels and with the less expensive Metallic paint, but every other option.

I put together a spreadsheet adding everything up, tacked on HST then subtracted the $8,500 Ontario rebate. I used the US values of $990 and $180 respectively for Delivery and Prep (although Cdn numbers will likely be higher). No air tax, tire tax, licence fee etc. because they will be relatively small anyway.

I come up with $102,149.60 CDN, and when I use the US prices (same spreadsheet model), I get $93,505.10. That's over $8,600, or a 9.2% spread.

I'm going to have to think hard about this. $93,000 is already about 50% more than I've ever spent on a car, and seeing 6 figures really gives me pause. I've modeled about $18,000 over 5 years in fuel and maintenance savings, but that still makes for a pretty darned expensive car. I worry about what insurance premiums are going to look like on something this pricey too.

Any other Canadian users having second thoughts, or thinking about cutting back on the options?

Mike

[Doug_G]

+ $1,500 USD for interior upgrade


Okay, so for the Base car you are paying for that seat upgrade. They have made it non-optional so you have to get the seat heater... which is an extremely good idea to have in our climate.

The extra amount doesn't apply to Signature or Performance cars, which is why my earlier math worked out. There is no effect on the "Signature Premium" per se.

[mknox]

Here is a direct response from George over at the Tesla site forums.

gblankenship | August 15, 2012Hi everyone. There seems to be a bit of confusion surrounding this issue.
Brian H, you are correct.
pbrulott, unfortunately, all cars manufactured in North America cannot be imported into Canada duty free. In order to be duty free, a minimum percentage of the car must be made in North America. Model S falls slightly below that percentage, so our cars cannot be brought into Canada duty free. We must pay the 6.1% import duty. We do not have a choice. That is the only reason why we are including it in our pricing.
I hope this helps make things a little clearer regarding the 6.1%.
Regarding the overall math, here's how we see the build up:
US Base price
+ $1,500 USD for interior upgrade
+ 6.1% duty
+ 1.5% to 2% for incremental transportation and business costs
Then convert this total using a mid-term currency conversion rate
That's the way we did it.

So I wonder, then, if they're falling "just below" the NA content requirement, and the culprit seems to be the battery cells, is it possible that the smaller battery options may not draw the 6.1% duty? The pricing doesn't seem to reflect that.

[mknox]

With the Ontario rebate the price will effectively be $105,800.

The Ontario rebate is applied on the final sale price after HST. The US federal credit is subtracted from the base price, before taxes.

Mike

[Doug_G]

The Ontario rebate is applied on the final sale price after HST. The US federal credit is subtracted from the base price, before taxes.

Mike

That makes them pretty well equivalent.

[mknox]

That makes them pretty well equivalent.

Right, but then you would subtract +/- $7,500 (rather than $8,500) from the base price to give you $106,800.

[Spurkey]

Any other Canadian users having second thoughts, or thinking about cutting back on the options? $100K for the MSP? Now that I see it in cold hard official-looking print it's definitely giving me serious second thoughts. I wasn't all that impressed after my test drive which makes it tough to plunk down that kind of money... I want a longer test drive and am considering waiting until I can get one before making my choice.

[Morristhecat]

Any other Canadian users having second thoughts, or thinking about cutting back on the options?

Mike

Yeah, I am thinking of cutting back on the options. Simplest, but hardest cut for me is 60kWh to 40kWh. But that is a hard cut... Really have to think about this. Hopefully I have til the spring to save more pennies... Oh wait, they cut the penny from circulation! Darn! :confused:

[mknox]

$100K for the MSP? Now that I see it in cold hard official-looking print it's definitely giving me serious second thoughts. I wasn't all that impressed after my test drive which makes it tough to plunk down that kind of money... I want a longer test drive and am considering waiting until I can get one before making my choice.

I was actually thrilled with the test drive, which is making it especially hard for me! I wish the car had more interior storage and a few additional tech options, like adaptive cruise, lane change warning and so forth, but that's another thread.

[mknox]

Yeah, I am thinking of cutting back on the options. Simplest, but hardest cut for me is 60kWh to 40kWh. But that is a hard cut... Really have to think about this. Hopefully I have til the spring to save more pennies... Oh wait, they cut the penny from circulation! Darn! :confused:

I hear you. I really need the range, and going from 85kWh to 60 would be a bitter pill. I'll have to go back to my models of how and where I plan (need) to drive to see if I could swing it.

[mnx]

I'm definitely getting the 85kWh perf.... However, I might drop back from sig to general production to save 6k+ (I'd probably drop the twin chargers and save 8800$).

It all depends on timing of sig deliveries vs. regular deliveries...

[Doug_G]

I dunno, I don't think I'd drop the dual chargers. Supercharging is fantastic if it's available; but if not then I'd want to use 70A or 80A if at all possible - and it is now possible in certain places. It can get rather tedious sitting and waiting for your car to charge.

At this point I'm still down for Signature Performance, despite the disappointment on the price. The frustration on the 6.1% is it doesn't even benefit Tesla, and it certainly doesn't benefit "domestic" manufacturers because there are no competing products.

[Right_Said_Fred]

Does anyone know what Tesla means with 'mid-term currency conversion rate'? Is it an average over a certain time period?

It would be nice to know, since this would give us in Europe a chance to calculate what European pricing could be like (with a 10% import tariff instead of 6,1% and probably a bit more than the 1,5-2% for shipping as European cars have to go on a boat).

[J in MN]

So I wonder, then, if they're falling "just below" the NA content requirement, and the culprit seems to be the battery cells, is it possible that the smaller battery options may not draw the 6.1% duty?

I'm wondering the same thing. The best .gov references I could find say that NAFTA requirement is 62.5% by value. We've seen the Signature (85 kWh) Monroney sticker stating 55% NAFTA content. So, a hypothetical 40 kWh Signature would be around 69.6% NAFTA. The 60 kWh would still not make it.

However, I haven't yet found whether or how optional equipment is counted.

Edit: I should add that NAFTA requires the calculation to be based on the component cost (aka Net Cost Method) for vehicles. It is probably safe to assume that Tesla's markup on the battery is much less than on the rest of the vehicle, which would put the NAFTA content at a lower percentage than what the retail price based calculation above indicated.

[tomanik]

3 years and 3 months ago I put down a deposit and have been keenly watching this car take shape. Today's pricing announcement is a key decision making milestone that I have been waiting for and although disappointed (in the duty) I expected as much. Going to have to do some soul searching over the next several months while I await the "time to build" email as the pricing means dropping the 'want' features and just get the bare-bone 40kwh base model.

[Spurkey]

I dunno, I don't think I'd drop the dual chargers. Supercharging is fantastic if it's available; but if not then I'd want to use 70A or 80A if at all possible - and it is now possible in certain places. It can get rather tedious sitting and waiting for your car to charge. I thought the twin chargers only worked with the fancy-schmancy wall connector? That was the message I got at the test drive event, not that they weren't wrong about other things too... I'd also be curious to know where higher-amperage charging is available, is that from Sun Country? If 80A is available on the road then it would change my opinion of the twin chargers, to me it didn't make sense if I could only use it at my house.

[Robert.Boston]

3 years and 3 months ago I put down a deposit and have been keenly watching this car take shape. Today's pricing announcement is a key decision making milestone that I have been waiting for and although disappointed (in the duty) I expected as much. Going to have to do some soul searching over the next several months while I await the "time to build" email as the pricing means dropping the 'want' features and just get the bare-bone 40kwh base model.

I'm genuinely puzzled. Tesla is offering the car in Canada at little-to-no markup over the US price. It's a shame that the NA content didn't get rid of the 6.1% import tariff, but it's hardly fair to tag Tesla with that.

[Doug_G]

Yes, J1772 can support 80A, and Sun Country is installing the higher power ones wherever they can. The new station at Shannonville Motorsports Park is 70A, for example, and is on my route to Toronto.

[Doug_G]

I'm genuinely puzzled. Tesla is offering the car in Canada at little-to-no markup over the US price. It's a shame that the NA content didn't get rid of the 6.1% import tariff, but it's hardly fair to tag Tesla with that.

When did governments ever worry about "fair". I'm wondring now whether most North American cars shipped over that border actually qualify. Parts in all vehicles are made around the world, after all.

[Robert.Boston]

Doug, what puzzled me is why people are disappointed with the Canadian pricing. Every adder above the US price is well explained.

[Jaff]

The duty is complete buncombe to me and represents a failure of government policy...If all governments were serious about the implementation of EV's, then until EV's reached critical mass world-wide, they would exempt them from such duties (and sales tax) as both of these government policies impede global acceptance of the product.

[njligernj]

FWIW I think the pricing is fine. I'm still more annoyed about my backward province (NS) not having any kind of EV rebate which will cost me a lot more than what Tesla has marked up over US. The 6.1% is I would agree a failure of government (which is sadly to be expected) and not Tesla. As far as what Tesla has done I am pretty happy. I'm an X reservation holder and hoping I can expect similar pricing (maybe even better! ... but at least equal) in a couple of years time.

[Doug_G]

Doug, what puzzled me is why people are disappointed with the Canadian pricing. Every adder above the US price is well explained.

I'm mainly disappointed that they didn't manage to avoid the 6.1% duty. I gather they were extremely close but were not able to make the 50% North American content. I know they tried very hard, including asking all their suppliers for additional information, e.g. whether a particular made-in-Germany part had any North American content. I know that other companies have done some clever things, like "completing" the assembly of vehicles in Canada, e.g. by simply bolting on a couple of extra parts once they got here. I bet they could have done something like that to get over the bar.

Adding 2.21% to the price of the car for exchange rate isn't the end of the world. Of course I'd prefer parity pricing. But this is much better than what they did with the Roadster. They really were excessively conservative with the Roadster pricing.

[agileone]

Disappointed as well... the whole "starting at 50k" story, needs a lot more explaining in Canada, and hand waiving ...

Will have to juggle the spreadsheet to see the outcome in my case.

[KBF]

For me it's a question is whether to keep my Signature or drop to Production. From the beginning I wanted to sign up for the Sig, and I was happy when us Canucks got the opportunity. I too was hoping that NAFTA would come through, but we all know that in reality Free Trade benefits the big players and screws Canadians over. (slightly off-topic, sorry!) My wife and I talked about $100k being a psychological limit - that's already more than double my previous most expensive vehicle. We can afford it, but the question is whether we want to spend that much on a mere car, albeit one that I believe will change the industry (or already has). For me, I don't like to flaunt my wealth and try to live well under my means, and try to be a good steward with what I have. Over 6 figures grabs attention...

Tesla has been good to us, and while they need to work on their salespeople's communication issues (different messaging), everything I have seen so far of this company is that they are trying hard to change the way car companies do business. I want to support both the "real car" EV industry and this new model of selling cars. And in the end, money has to be used for something, and I think it is a paradigm shift worth investing in. (Okay I have shares, too, but that helps me, not Tesla directly)

So, I suppose I have convinced myself (thanks, TMC! :wink:), as psychologically difficult as it is to pay this much for a car. Although I just have to practice the line, "Well, in the US it starts at $49k with the tax credit". I was leaning towards maybe getting a pano roof, but now I really am not sure... convince me, people! :biggrin:

[KBF]

Although my remaining question is delivery. If that happens December 2012 and P's are delivered within 3 or 4 weeks anyway, I'll be rather peeved. Pricing... well, not happy but it's not like they have a choice in this (for the top end)

[tomanik]

I'm genuinely puzzled. Tesla is offering the car in Canada at little-to-no markup over the US price. It's a shame that the NA content didn't get rid of the 6.1% import tariff, but it's hardly fair to tag Tesla with that.

Agreed that the duty is not Teslas fault, was not trying to imply that, does not change the fact that I am disappointed.

[markwj]

Doug, what puzzled me is why people are disappointed with the Canadian pricing. Every adder above the US price is well explained.

I agree.

By comparison, for the Roadster, here in Hong Kong we were hit with +20% above US prices (no tax or import duties for EVs here). Other EVs are marked up 30%+. Seeing the Canadian prices really gives me hope that Tesla will keep things reasonable.

A base Model S here for HK$500k would be cool and really help adoption. Leafs are HK$418k, by comparison.

[Zapped]

I want to support both the "real car" EV industry and this new model of selling cars. And in the end, money has to be used for something, and I think it is a paradigm shift worth investing in.

KBF, you make an excellent point.

There appears to be two separate $ issues.
1) Paying more than our US counterparts: Ironically people in Germany pay much more for vehicles built in their own country than we do in North America for the same imported car. I'm happy that the pricing is as close as it is... considering other products with US/CND price disparities.

2) Pricing for the Model S is very high: We are the first to buy this class of car. Early adopters will always pay more in my experience but IMHO this one is worth it. I remember paying over $7000 for our first micro computer (Apple 2e w 10Meg external HD) in 1979,. ($23,000 in today's dollars). I am also a strong believer in what TELSA is doing to change the world today, with real results. :biggrin:

[mnx]

3 years and 3 months ago I put down a deposit and have been keenly watching this car take shape. Today's pricing announcement is a key decision making milestone that I have been waiting for and although disappointed (in the duty) I expected as much. Going to have to do some soul searching over the next several months while I await the "time to build" email as the pricing means dropping the 'want' features and just get the bare-bone 40kwh base model.

So you upgraded to a sig reservation, downgraded and are now considering the base model? Did your financial situation change, or was the sig never really a reality?

[KBF]

Disclaimer for those in a different financial situation than me: a Tesla is not worth your own financial insecurity. It is easy to lose perspective following forums like these, and I don't want my "impassioned" speech about why I'm spending $$$,$$$.¢¢ to make a bad decision. If the base is a stretch but doable, that's great, but 100K is a LOT of money for a car. We should see Gen III eventually. The Model S is probably worth sacrificing something for (like a flying vacation down South) if it fits the needs of your family (I have 4 kids so there is no other electric vehicle comparable). Too many of my friends are deep in debt because of many smaller things (like new electronics every year with data plans they can't afford and expensive, meaningless habits like satellite TV:wink:) and it makes it that much harder to invest in the future in important ways.

My fears about delaying for later models are: a) once everyone who "pre-ordered" are through, there may be a price increase (just a chance, but it happened with the Roadster) b) disaster happens and Tesla halts production, major delays (is the factory on a fault line?:crying:) c)Canadian government adds stupid regulations. Seriously, if I hope to get my Model S before these happen (if they do), and I think all of the previous (at this point) are fairly unlikely to happen. If Tesla fails someone will buy them out, but then we are back to the same ridiculous dealership model and no one will likely try it again for a while.

Sorry for my long posts, I'm longwinded :smile:

[eggy]

Canadian Prices (http://www.4-traders.com/news/Tesla-Motors-Inc-Tesla-Motors-Announces-Canadian-Pricing-for-Model-S--14460768/)

Anybody interested in ? :rolleyes:

[tomanik]

So you upgraded to a sig reservation, downgraded and are now considering the base model? Did your financial situation change, or was the sig never really a reality?

We made the decision that my wife would stay home for our daughter for several additional years. Different kind of investment in the future.

[gg_got_a_tesla]

b) disaster happens and Tesla halts production, major delays (is the factory on a fault line?:crying:)

Indeed. To go OT for a bit, we are due for a real big one on the Hayward Fault anytime now (and surely "sometime in the next 30 years" given the last big one there in 1868 and its almost-regular ~150 year frequency). San Andreas to the west is more active and the last one there up in the Bay Area was in 1989.

Interesting stuff here: http://www.hwmpenvirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/regulators/site_documents/6089658439/New_United_Motor_Manufacturing_Inc..pdf

See section '3.3 Geology'.

[mnx]

We made the decision that my wife would stay home for our daughter for several additional years. Different kind of investment in the future.

Great choice! I hope you're still able to get the Tesla you want!

[Orthonos]

I am pretty content with the pricing. With this kind of expenditure, I was concerned that if the price was too much more than the US, I would have bad feelings towards the car (and I don't want to spend $100k and have bad feeling towards it!). But the pricing is reasonably close, and better than many if not most car companies. I am currently on the list for a Sig, but will return to Production (I want dolphin grey for colour - although I really really want my car sooner :) ) I added it up on the US site and then with Canadian pricing and this is what I get: (85kW battery, panoramic roof, leather seats, tech package, sound package, air suspension, parcel shelf, paint armour, twin chargers and wall unit) US$91,250 vs CAD$99,050. About 8.5% more in Canada, but given they are being charged import duty, quite reasonable. I have no bad feelings towards the car and soooo impatiently waiting:) The government remains the dwelling of societies' dregs, but that is another story.

[mknox]

I'm mainly disappointed that they didn't manage to avoid the 6.1% duty. I gather they were extremely close but were not able to make the 50% North American content. I know they tried very hard, including asking all their suppliers for additional information, e.g. whether a particular made-in-Germany part had any North American content. I know that other companies have done some clever things, like "completing" the assembly of vehicles in Canada, e.g. by simply bolting on a couple of extra parts once they got here. I bet they could have done something like that to get over the bar.

I was talking to my company's CFO today (who accompanied me on my test drive) and he was suggesting that if Tesla simply imported the car and battery separately, and installed the battery here, they could likely avoid the duty. I would have to think they're set up here to do battery swaps.

Our company bought some Dodge Sprinters (back in the Daimler-Chrysler days) and I was given to understand they disassembled the trucks in Europe and bolted them back together here to avoid the import duty. Seems crazy, but apparently the trouble was worth it in the end.

Wonder if Tesla explored ideas like that?

Mike

[Vger]

It is only the battery cells (all 7,000+ of them per car) that are made in Japan. The battery assembly is designed, manufactured and assembled in California. So I doubt that what your friend suggested would work. I doubt that Tesla just fouled up the paperwork. From the tone of George B's post on the other forum, it sounds like they were certainly aware of the issue, and would have preferred to make the grade.

[ahimberg]

So Canadian Model S can get the upgraded interior in textile (12 way, heated seats, décor options). I contacted Tesla about this for the US (and a couple other things) before I finalize my order, they said this option is not available in the US. boo

[mnx]

So Canadian Model S can get the upgraded interior in textile (12 way, heated seats, décor options). I contacted Tesla about this for the US (and a couple other things) before I finalize my order, they said this option is not available in the US. boo

The options page isn't clear but I believe that if you want heated seats then textile is not an option in Canada either. It's just that leather seats are included in the base price.

[mknox]

It is only the battery cells (all 7,000+ of them per car) that are made in Japan. The battery assembly is designed, manufactured and assembled in California. So I doubt that what your friend suggested would work. I doubt that Tesla just fouled up the paperwork. From the tone of George B's post on the other forum, it sounds like they were certainly aware of the issue, and would have preferred to make the grade.

I wonder, though, if Tesla could import the car without the battery (with no duty), and sell us the pack separately... and then the duty would only apply on the value of the pack? Okay... I'm grasping at straws here, but anything to save some $$$ on that darned duty!

[Doug_G]

I wonder, though, if Tesla could import the car without the battery (with no duty), and sell us the pack separately... and then the duty would only apply on the value of the pack? Okay... I'm grasping at straws here, but anything to save some $$$ on that darned duty!

You are not the first to suggest it. I'm pretty sure Tesla knows about that idea.

[mnx]

Does anyone else think we'll (cdn sigs) get finalize e-mails next week? (or am I setting myself up for disappointment?)

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I wonder, though, if Tesla could import the car without the battery (with no duty), and sell us the pack separately... and then the duty would only apply on the value of the pack? Okay... I'm grasping at straws here, but anything to save some $$$ on that darned duty!

Could that require crash testing again in Canada? There must be some such onerous implication for Tesla to not have gone for it...

[raymond]

I wonder, though, if Tesla could import the car without the battery (with no duty)

Without the battery pack it is not a car and might fall in a higher tax-category / cannot get a road-worthiness certificate / I don't know what else. TM has just as much reasons to avoid the 6.1% tax as the buyers do.

[ahimberg]

The options page isn't clear but I believe that if you want heated seats then textile is not an option in Canada either. It's just that leather seats are included in the base price.

The response I got from the Tesla didn't say that, they said the option is not currently available in the US. I would have expected them to say its not available in Canada either if that's the case. What I really expect is as pricing comes out worldwide its going to match Canada as tesla moves to 1 type of seat. Makes no sense that early-ish US buyers can't pay for it.

[Robert.Boston]

If the problem were primarily from the battery, then you might expect that the 60kWh and/or 40kWh batteries might not be subject to the tariff.

[tomanik]

"As of January 1, 2002, at least 62.5 percent of a passenger car or light truck's net cost must be of value originating in North America. All other vehicles must reach 60 percent North American content to qualify for zero duty rates." - Page 10 - http://trade.gov/static/autos_report_tradebarriers2011.pdf

If the import duty is based on cost then yes it would seem that the 40kWh and possible the 60kWh could meet the content requirement. That said for Tesla it is probably simpler (or maybe even required) that the duty be applied to all models since we know the 85kWh does meet the requirements. Regardless we are one step closer to having the Model S in Canada.

[Brian H]

I hear you. I really need the range, and going from 85kWh to 60 would be a bitter pill. I'll have to go back to my models of how and where I plan (need) to drive to see if I could swing it.
Run some of the 5 & 10 yr. model-to-model comparisons over at Teslarumors.com/teslanomics . Might help refine your POV on TCO .

[Brian H]

...

So, I suppose I have convinced myself (thanks, TMC! :wink:), as psychologically difficult as it is to pay this much for a car. Although I just have to practice the line, "Well, in the US it starts at $49k with the tax credit". I was leaning towards maybe getting a pano roof, but now I really am not sure... convince me, people! :biggrin:
"I'm saving so much on fuel over the life of the car, with my trade-in it's almost free!"
That should gob-strike 'em!

[mknox]

Run some of the 5 & 10 yr. model-to-model comparisons over at Teslarumors.com/teslanomics . Might help refine your POV on TCO .

Thanks. I already have very good fuel cost data on my ICE cars (have recorded every drop of gas along with fuel price and odometer for many, many years) and, by virtue of working in the electric utility industry for over 33 years, a good understanding of electricity rates and costs.

If not for the Model S, I would likely be in the market for a CDN$60 - 70k (taxes included) vehicle. Audi A6 or A7, Cadillac CTS etc. The Model S with the options I like comes in at a bit over $102k (taxes included).

I've already calculated about $18k savings in fuel over 5 years (ICE gas costs minus Model S electricity costs), so that still leaves a $14 - 24k difference between what I "should" be spending over 5 years and what I "would" be spending on Model S. That's why I need to go back over the options list.

[Brian H]

Thanks. I already have very good fuel cost data on my ICE cars (have recorded every drop of gas along with fuel price and odometer for many, many years) and, by virtue of working in the electric utility industry for over 33 years, a good understanding of electricity rates and costs.

If not for the Model S, I would likely be in the market for a CDN$60 - 70k (taxes included) vehicle. Audi A6 or A7, Cadillac CTS etc. The Model S with the options I like comes in at a bit over $102k (taxes included).

I've already calculated about $18k savings in fuel over 5 years (ICE gas costs minus Model S electricity costs), so that still leaves a $14 - 24k difference between what I "should" be spending over 5 years and what I "would" be spending on Model S. That's why I need to go back over the options list.
Heh. Sounds like you should collaborate with the site to refine their calcs! But I was more thinking along the lines of finding particular model comparisons.

[znino]

I am relatively happy with the Canadian pricing. As others pointed out, the CAN/USA differential on my Roadster was way worse. I did notice that on the Canadian pricing site there is a note that says "Prices do not include Tesla Personal Delivery, Final Inspection, Prep and Coordination fee,license, insurance, registration, applicable taxes, levies, and fees or regionally required equipment, service, and charges.". This note is NOT present on the USA site. Not sure if it is a bug or if they already have Personal delivery and prep etc included in the USA pricing. Would make the gap worse if it is true.

One thing that does concern me is that when I put my order for a Signature (R8) I expected that this would go a long way to getting the car in my hands quicker. Currently they are just saying Late 2012 for both Signature and Regular! Doesn't sound promising but again, who knows what the reality is. I have sent an email to Tesla Canada asking for some clarification. Only a couple of months ago I was being told end of September for my R8 reservation number but Late 2012 for first deliveries ???? Grrrrr.

[KBF]

"I'm saving so much on fuel over the life of the car, with my trade-in it's almost free!"
That should gob-strike 'em!

Thanks, "Steph"! ;)
(where is he, anyway? I thought he was out of "forum jail" a second time....)

[mknox]

I was speaking to a Tesla rep today, and asked when I could expect to see my car (I am CDN Prod Res #343). I was told "early next year" and when I asked what that meant was told January or February.

It seems probable that some Production reservation holders earlier than me may actually see cars in 2012.

Mike

[CurrieG]

Canadian pricing is up now! 8% premium for duty! Etc.... Go to the Canadian site - Options & Pricing.

[mknox]

I am relatively happy with the Canadian pricing. As others pointed out, the CAN/USA differential on my Roadster was way worse. I did notice that on the Canadian pricing site there is a note that says "Prices do not include Tesla Personal Delivery, Final Inspection, Prep and Coordination fee,license, insurance, registration, applicable taxes, levies, and fees or regionally required equipment, service, and charges.". This note is NOT present on the USA site. Not sure if it is a bug or if they already have Personal delivery and prep etc included in the USA pricing. Would make the gap worse if it is true.

Someone somewhere posted a "Window Sticker" from a US Model S and it showed "Personal Delivery" $990; "Inspection, Prep and Coordination" $180

I was speaking with Hans today at the pop-up store in Toronto, and he said he's been getting a lot of grief over the CDN pricing. He says Tesla went to great lengths to try and get in under the duty being levied for "foreign content" and even explored separating the battery from the car. They feel badly that it turned out this way, and are trying to be as transparent as possible with their CDN pricing strategy.


One thing that does concern me is that when I put my order for a Signature (R8) I expected that this would go a long way to getting the car in my hands quicker. Currently they are just saying Late 2012 for both Signature and Regular! Doesn't sound promising but again, who knows what the reality is. I have sent an email to Tesla Canada asking for some clarification. Only a couple of months ago I was being told end of September for my R8 reservation number but Late 2012 for first deliveries ???? Grrrrr.

I am Prod reservation #343 and was told today that I would likely see the car in January or February (if I stick with the 85 kWh pack).

[Vger]

I was speaking to a Tesla rep today, and asked when I could expect to see my car (I am CDN Prod Res #343). I was told "early next year" and when I asked what that meant was told January or February.

It seems probable that some Production reservation holders earlier than me may actually see cars in 2012.

Mike

Hmmm, that is a little concerning, but they still seem to be expecting low numbered Sigs like KBF and me to make it this year. We shall see. Until they get the first 500 cars out (or not) by the end of September, I am still wary of any timing promises for Q4.

[CurrieG]

I have signature #146... I was told today late Nov or in Dec this year!

[Jeeps17]

Just noted that the running $ tally is now functional in the canadian model S design studio.

[Robert.Boston]

There was a posted window sticker for a Model S that showed 55% US/Canada content. So if 62.5% is the benchmark, that's a fair piece away.

[nickkinkaid]

Hi TMC Friends,
We have just released the Canadian Design Studio, with prices and options. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Nick Kinkaid
Tesla Motors, Director of Online Experience

[Jaff]

Hi Nick...I just tried it out...looks great and functions well...Thanks!

(oh, could you please do something about the }¤%!*#*# duty?). :wink:

[Jgdixon]

Nick,
I don't believe the pricing for the Pano roof option is showing. I configured Signature Performance.
(oops, see it now at the top under roof and spoiler selection. I was looking in the packages and options area.)

In addition the 0-97 km time isn't correct on Performance. Should be 4.4 seconds, right?
This is once you select your model, listed in the 85kwh battery box.

[Doug_G]

Very nicely done, Nick. It works very smoothly. Jgdixon is right about the 0-97 time being wrong on the Performance and Signature Performance, though.


All prices are listed in Canadian Dollars (CAD) and include Canadian import duty. Prices do not include Tesla Personal Delivery, Final Inspection, Prep and Coordination fee, license, insurance, registration, applicable taxes, levies, and fees or regionally required equipment, service, and charges.

I'd like to know what the "Tesla Personal Delivery" and "Final Inspection, Prep and Coordinate" fees are in Canada.

[Doug_G]

Interesting comparison:

Signature Performance with Pano Roof and Paint Armor = $116,900.

Performance configured with same options - Tech Package, Sound Studio, Parcel Shelf, Multi-Coat Paint, Pano Roof and Paint Armor = $111,450.

This shows that the "Signature Premium" amounts to CDN $5450 (or $6250 if you only wanted metallic paint).

[nickkinkaid]

Nick,
I don't believe the pricing for the Pano roof option is showing. I configured Signature Performance.
(oops, see it now at the top under roof and spoiler selection. I was looking in the packages and options area.)

In addition the 0-97 km time isn't correct on Performance. Should be 4.4 seconds, right?
This is once you select your model, listed in the 85kwh battery box.

Yes, I see the typo now. We'll fix on Monday. Our Design Studio is carrying the 0-60 time from the non-Performance 85 kWh battery. Thanks for the catch!

Nick

[nickkinkaid]

I'd like to know what the "Tesla Personal Delivery" and "Final Inspection, Prep and Coordinate" fees are in Canada.

Let me confirm with our sales operations folks and I'll let you know on Monday.

[KBF]

It works fine on Safari and Chrome, but I seem to have trouble on my Galaxy Note (ICS). It works to change paint/roof/wheels/interior, but when I scroll down, the sidebar pricing moves to the upper left portion of the screen and I'm unable to select options (I tap the box, but no checkmark lights up, no change in price).

One more thing; with my previously-designed cars I get American pricing, and before I had the option to design non-Signature cars. Now when I start a new design (while I'm logged in) I can choose Sig or Sig Performance only. It doesn't bother me, but I thought it was interesting. Like I said, works fine on my laptop, thanks!

[nickkinkaid]

One more thing; with my previously-designed cars I get American pricing, and before I had the option to design non-Signature cars. It doesn't bother me, but I thought it was interesting. Like I said, works fine on my laptop, thanks!

Pricing for saved designs reflect the site you were on when you saved your design. If you design a car under the US site, it gets US pricing, and same for CA. If you're seeing US pricing on your reserved car, then let me take a look. Private message me your email address and I'll look it up.

Thanks,
Nick

[KBF]

I get Canadian pricing if I start a new design, so it's all good. I'll delete my old designs.

[Vger]

One more step on the road to lock-in and delivery! :smile:

[Zapped]

Is the $1,300 high powered wall connector option worth it. What are the power connection requirements ?
I have a 240V 30 A connection for my welder in the garage.
I did not see the spec on the length of charging cables that the Model S come with ?

[KBF]

I would say you probably want to go with a 50 amp circuit, unless you don't use it as your daily driver or if you rarely will drive more than half your capacity in a day. There are several threads in the Model S section of TMC, with good discussion on whether to get the wall charger. I believe Tesla's charging page says the length of the cord, but I'm at work (on break!) so I don't have time to give you a link.

[Doug_G]

A 30 amp circuit takes 10 hours to put 53kWh in a Roadster. Much longer for an 85kWh pack. A 50A circuit is almost twice as fast, and I think that is entirely sufficient for garage charging. I have an HPC and almost never use it at full power, mainly for the occasional visiting Roadster.

[Eberhard]

I use my current 3-phase 32A socket to charge my Roadster (overnight 24A) but with my Model S, i can charge with triple speed because of support of 3-phase charging.

[Doug_G]

No three-phase support for North American cars...

[mnx]

I take it back. :)

[KBF]

Well, according to George B we'll be getting our finalize emails this week. Are you ready? :D

[Zapped]

Lot's of discussion on the TM forum about Production rates. Even if the CND emails go out, it sounds like the 3 month delivery after finalization quoted by my TM Rep could be more like 4-5 months.:crying:

[joefee]

George B. "Canadian reservation holders can now start choosing their options and colours as they prepare to finalize their Model S. Later this week you’ll also be able to finalize your order online. Hint: Canadian Signature reservation holders should be on the lookout for an important email coming this week ☺"

Inside Tesla - 08.21.12 | Blog | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/inside-tesla-082112)

[Vger]

Canadian Signature reservation holders should be on the lookout for an important email coming this week ☺

OK, this is really getting exciting now! I was told by a rep via email on Monday to still expect delivery "November/December". If Canadian Signatures get into the build queue right after US Sigs, that is entirely reasonable. Tesla would only have to deliver 1200-2000 cars this year to make that schedule. I believe they may miss the 5,000 mark, but not by that much. I am guessing they will get to around 3,500-4,000 out this year.

[mnx]

OK, this is really getting exciting now! I was told by a rep via email on Monday to still expect delivery "November/December". If Canadian Signatures get into the build queue right after US Sigs, that is entirely reasonable. Tesla would only have to deliver 1200-2000 cars this year to make that schedule. I believe they may miss the 5,000 mark, but not by that much. I am guessing they will get to around 3,500-4,000 out this year.

It is very exciting... Except now that I know that the e-mail is coming this week, I'm compulsively checking my e-mail and pressing refresh on the forum.

Actually nothing has changed at all :)

[Spurkey]

I was told by a rep via email on Monday to still expect delivery "November/December". If Canadian Signatures get into the build queue right after US Sigs, that is entirely reasonable.Here's hoping they squeeze 100-odd CDN-Production ones in that run too... :)

[Vger]

Here's hoping they squeeze 100-odd CDN-Production ones in that run too... :)

I think that is also quite possible! It would make sense for them to extend the run of Canadian spec cars beyond the Signature builds. It is just not that many to do to clear the whole current Canadian list.

[nickkinkaid]

I'd like to know what the "Tesla Personal Delivery" and "Final Inspection, Prep and Coordinate" fees are in Canada.

Hi Doug G:
Tesla Personal Delivery is $990.00 CAD and includes delivery to your home address and a personal one-on-one walk-through of Model S. There is also a final inspection, prep, and coordination fee of $180.00 CAD.

[Doug_G]

Hi Doug G:
Tesla Personal Delivery is $990.00 CAD and includes delivery to your home address and a personal one-on-one walk-through of Model S. There is also a final inspection, prep, and coordination fee of $180.00 CAD.

Okay, sounds good - thanks!

[Doug_G]

Insurance discussions were moved to Model S Insurance in Canada (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9826-Model-S-Insurance-in-Canada)

[Vger]

Insurance discussions were moved to Model S Insurance in Canada (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9826-Model-S-Insurance-in-Canada)

Thanks! I was going to suggest that!

[mnx]

thanks! I was going to suggest that!

login and press finalize! :)

[Jaff]

Really?...going there now!

I can't get by the "Get started" button...I click on it but nothing happens...(your insurance just went up $500 / yr Matt) :wink::biggrin:

I tried calling the phone number listed ((888) 771-2505)...not in service...(did I say up $500 / yr Matt...I meant $1,000...) :biggrin::biggrin:

[mnx]

Seems to work... I get this after pressing finalize.

9119

- - - Updated - - -

Any General Production Canadians have a "Finalize" button in My Tesla?

[Jaff]

I can't seem to get to this screen...when I click on the confirm design button, nothing happens...

[mnx]

Just got my e-mail.... Jaff if it's still not work I'd suggest trying another browser or computer.

[KBF]

So who will be the first to configure? I need to decide on a few things first.

[mnx]

So who will be the first to configure? I need to decide on a few things first.

I'd love to go through the process, but I need to decide how badly I want the sig... LOL

Also waffling back and forth on paint armour.

[Doug_G]

I got the email.

[Prime Mover]

So who will be the first to configure? I need to decide on a few things first.

I saw MNX's post that the "Finalize" button was now available on the Canadian order site but I was in the middle of a business meeting. Then, the long-awaited email from Tesla came in while my meeting now seemed to drag on. Finally I was able to escape and FINALIZE. I posted the specs in the main Model S "Finalize Your Order" thread.

Thanks to George B for the heads-up that the emails were coming to the Canadian Sig reservists. It's great to see our orders moving to the next phase.

[Doug_G]

I saw MNX's post that the "Finalize" button was now available on the Canadian order site but I was in the middle of a business meeting. Then, the long-awaited email from Tesla came in while my meeting now seemed to drag on. Finally I was able to escape and FINALIZE. I posted the specs in the main Model S "Finalize Your Order" thread.

Thanks to George B for the heads-up that the emails were coming to the Canadian Sig reservists. It's great to see our orders moving to the next phase.

You did notice they gave us a month to finalize... :biggrin:

[ElectricFarmBoy]

And I'm done too. I've done online shopping before, but this makes that impulse Lego Monorail buy look a bit insignificant! Ended up doing Performance, Tan, Lacewood, Pano, Sig Red. Still a bit shaky.... I am Cdn Sig 111. And Cdn Model X P 5.

[Jaff]

Weird that it keeps locking up on me...I completed the registration by phone and am awaiting an email with the purchase agreement...BTW, the 888 phone number didn't work either so Sarah gave me this number for those wanting to order by phone...(650) 681-5100...

- - - Updated - - -

I just received an email from Bryan at TMC advising me that they'll have the purchase agreement ready to email me within 24 hours...I don't know if there is the same 24 hour delay if you order online...

[Doug_G]

Yes, it's the same 24 hours online.

I suspect that Tesla only paid for their 1-888 number to work in the USA. Most people don't realize that these numbers can be targeted to work in a specific region only.

[Vger]

I got my email also. I am working to clarify a couple things with HQ before pressing the button, but it looks like it will be:

Sig Red, Pano roof, Tan leather, matte obeche, 19" wheels, HPWC.

[Jaff]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mentioned to Sarah...


Yes, it's the same 24 hours online.

I suspect that Tesla only paid for their 1-888 number to work in the USA. Most people don't realize that these numbers can be targeted to work in a specific region only.

[Jgdixon]

I got my email late this morning. Canadian Sig #152.
Used the phone number in my original confirmation email, they said they will fix the 888 #
After my questions were answered I went online and confirmed.
Signature Red, whiter leather, pano roof and HPC.
They told me no leasing available right now. I'll get my leasing company to do it for me.

[mnx]

I'd love to go through the process, but I need to decide how badly I want the sig... LOL

Also waffling back and forth on paint armour.

I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address in the finalize e-mail to find out what kind of delay there will be between delivery of sigs and general production for us canucks... Haven't heard anything back yet, but I'll post what I find out here if it's anything quantitative.

[Doug_G]

Okay I locked in. Signature Red Performance, grey wheels (after much waffling), pano roof, paint armour, black interior with CF.

[patp]

Locked my order this pm. Signature Performance #12 - Black on Black with CF interior, grey wheels, pano roof, rears seats

[Jaff]

Copycat...:biggrin:



Okay I locked in. Signature Red, grey wheels (after much waffling), pano roof, paint armour, black interior with CF.

[Prime Mover]

Okay I locked in. Signature Red, grey wheels (after much waffling), pano roof, paint armour, black interior with CF.


Congrats to fellow Canadian Model S Sig reservation holders who have firmed up their orders. I understand your problem, Doug, trying to figure out whether to go with the grey wheels. That has been the only choice that I could not make a clear decision about. In the end, I chose silver wheels and you chose grey. I don't think there is a wrong answer to the question.

[Doug_G]

Congrats to fellow Canadian Model S Sig reservation holders who have firmed up their orders. I understand your problem, Doug, trying to figure out whether to go with the grey wheels. That has been the only choice that I could not make a clear decision about. In the end, I chose silver wheels and you chose grey. I don't think there is a wrong answer to the question.

Well at first I didn't think the grey went well with the red, because it looks crappy in the design studio. Pictures and videos of actual cars made it seem more attractive. It looks really sharp on the white car, and I'm generally fond of the look, so I decided to give it a try.

Unfortunately I never got to see that combo in person. Fingers crossed.