How much does Performance mode affect battery life/range?

[daniel]

The owner's manual says that using Performance mode (as well as Range mode) will reduce battery life. Or to put it another way, that range will decline faster if these modes are used regularly.

I'd be interested in some quantitative numbers. I've never charged or driven in Performance mode. I've only ever used Standard mode, and Storage mode. (The latter when I'm away from home for an extended time.)

I also know that the best performance is right after charging in Performance mode, and while the battery pack remains at or near full.

But I'd be interested to know how far I can drive after charging in Performance mode before the performance drops to what I get in Standard mode, and how much faster I'll lose battery capacity if I use Performance mode, say, once a month, or once a week. I don't really ever need​ to use Performance mode. I'm just curious, and wondering if the occasional passenger would even notice the difference, and whether it's worth the accelerated battery degradation.

[Lloyd]

Understand that Tesla has not released that the different charge and driving modes will be available on the model S.

[richkae]

My Roadster is close to 3 years old, with 21000 miles. It is still within 1 or 2% of its original range.
I've taken the car to the raceteack over a dozen times, driving it in performance mode for hours. I frequently put it in performance mode when commuting if I get a chance to hit a clear onramp.

The only thing charging in performance mode does is let the battery get warmer than the other modes. The battery is happier delivering large amounts of power when it is warm. The flip side of this is that high temperatures degrade the battery and you want to minimize the time spent hot.

We tried to measure the performance difference between a warm battery and a very warm battery a while ago and it was hard to measure a difference.
It is not at all necessary to charge in performance mode to enjoy it, normal driving will warm the battery up. When driving in performance mode, the battery is allowed to deliver more power.
I always charge in a non-performance mode when I am done driving - to cool the battery back down.

[hcsharp]

Rich pretty much covered it. Charging in range or performance mode once a month will probably not result in any measurable difference in battery life and might even help it because it will do a better job of keeping it balanced, which contributes to longer life.

[daniel]

Understand that Tesla has not released that the different charge and driving modes will be available on the model S.
I was asking specifically in regards to my Roadster.


My Roadster is close to 3 years old, with 21000 miles. It is still within 1 or 2% of its original range.
I've taken the car to the raceteack over a dozen times, driving it in performance mode for hours. I frequently put it in performance mode when commuting if I get a chance to hit a clear onramp. [... snip...]

Rich pretty much covered it. [...]
Thanks, all!

I believe you can engage the Performance mode by turning the key fully forward while driving, and cancel it the same way? Is this correct? Or should the car be at a stop?

[dadaleus]

I believe you can engage the Performance mode by turning the key fully forward while driving, and cancel it the same way? Is this correct? Or should the car be at a stop?

I just touch the battery icon on the center console to change modes. (Twice from standard gets to performance. Once again back to standard.) Works fine while in motion. Didn't know about the key thing--will have to try that.

[Tesla 940]

I just touch the battery icon on the center console to change modes. (Twice from standard gets to performance. Once again back to standard.) Works fine while in motion. Didn't know about the key thing--will have to try that.

I knew about the key thing but didn't know/remember the center console method. Also didn't know/remember how to get out of performance mode

[NigelM]

I believe you can engage the Performance mode by turning the key fully forward while driving, and cancel it the same way? Is this correct? Or should the car be at a stop?

You are correct; this was shown to me specifically by Tesla as part of the run-through when my Roadster was delivered. The car does not need to be stopped.

[daniel]

Thanks!

[daniel]

Today I put it in Performance mode briefly (having charged in Standard.) I'm not sure I could tell the difference. I mean, the thing is just plain FAST! I don't know if Performance Mode would even be a difference I could detect. Maybe if I gave it that extra boost of charging in Performance, since I understand the battery pack can deliver a bit more current & power if it's nearer full, and warmer, which a P mode charge does.

[Dragon]

Some of you guys should really really read the manual.

[Fuzzylogic]

That's the only benefit of getting your licence plates weeks after getting your car. You can read the manual, and then read it again, and again..

I know i did, had to wait 2 weeks, i think you had to wait 2 months?

[dhrivnak]

On a 1.5 I have not been able to measure a difference between standard mode and performance mode. The ranger said there is a .1 sec difference 0 to 60. I think the advantage is more for longer Autocross courses as the batteries can run warmer keeping more power to the wheels rather than cooling. I hear there is more difference in later models. As far as the effect on range there is none as it charges to the same SOC.

Battery life could be affected but it is really a function of how long you keep the battery at elevated temperatures. My guess is few of us keep it in performance mode long enough to make a measurable difference.

[daniel]

Some of you guys should really really read the manual.
I've read it through several times. It's not always as clear or as detailed as I'd like. For example, it says that Performance mode can be entered and canceled from the touch screen, but does not mention how. I didn't realize until dadaleus posted yesterday morning, that it's done by touching the battery icon. (This board is a great source of information!)


On a 1.5 I have not been able to measure a difference between standard mode and performance mode. The ranger said there is a .1 sec difference 0 to 60. I think the advantage is more for longer Autocross courses as the car can run warmer keeping more power to the wheels rather than cooling. I hear there is more difference in later models.
My Customer Advocate told me 0 to 60 is around 4.1 seconds in Standard mode. (Compared to 3.9 in Performance mode.) This is a 2.5 non-sport. But I don't know if she was quoting published numbers, relaying information from a tech, or just guesstimating. And I don't know how much difference there is between P mode after charging in P mode, vs P mode after charging in Standard mode, or how quickly (if at all) the advantage is lost as miles remaining declines. I do remember reading that power will decline if the battery gets too warm, and that apparently under extreme driving the cooling system cannot keep up.

This is mostly academic for me. My only interest in really maximizing acceleration is when showing off the car. I like to dispel the golf-cart mentality by giving people more acceleration than they've ever experienced before.

[strider]

This is mostly academic for me. My only interest in really maximizing acceleration is when showing off the car. I like to dispel the golf-cart mentality by giving people more acceleration than they've ever experienced before.
Also acceleration may be tire-limited (ie tires are cold) and if so there won't be a difference because TC is limiting power in both modes.

I felt the same way about my Corvette but I got used to it. I'm starting to feel that way about the Roadster. The acceleration is becoming commonplace for me so it's fun when I get to take someone for a ride and they're blown away by the acceleration.

Maybe Tesla will offer a Sport motor/PEM upgrade in the future? :)

[PV4EV]

My only interest in really maximizing acceleration is when showing off the car. I like to dispel the golf-cart mentality by giving people more acceleration than they've ever experienced before.


I had a very interesting passenger this week, but I have been sworn to secrecy about who, and which rather well known exotic car company he owns.

All I'll say is he's been around a long time, done a lot of racing, and is a petrol head in the truest sense, and the thought to him that cars powered by anything other than a thumping great ICE is just not worth thinking about.

Basically I had to have a meeting at the 'factory' to discuss mods to a V8 I still own (and am looking to sell…) and took the Roadster as its pretty much my daily drive.

I parked up, had the meeting, all went fine, and the boss sees me back to the entrance for a final hand shake … when he spots the Tesla, and his face just dropped and he became quite dismissive of all things EV, and he turned to me as if to ask why I'd defected to the dark side.

But he did accept the offer of a quick demo drive…



First comment was how silent it was when I told him 'the engine' was actually running, as I reversed out. We hit some rush hour traffic on exiting the car park, but I knew all I needed was a quiet 100 yards or so. Conveniently I found a stretch that was inclined slightly down hill.

… I engaged performance mode, flicked through some interesting graphs on the VDS, and left it in Peak Performance display to record the G-force. I punched the loud pedal, and held-on for impulse power to turn into full-on warp mode.

Somehow I managed to do a particularly good launch and about 2 seconds in it felt like it was actually accelerating even harder. Even with the two of us in the car, I got a Peak G of 0.78 !!

About 4 seconds in my passenger was giggling like a school girl, letting out the odd *&^%, $%^& and @~{* with some OMG and %$£$%^*(" thrown in for good measure.

He was stunned, shocked, amazed, and in between more giggling he was full of questions, and demanded more blasts with the on/off the power pedal, and demos of mid range overtaking ability etc, and could it be made to drift through a roundabout.

He even liked the jet engine noises, and declared that he was gonna have to look into getting one as he just didn’t realise that such fun could be had in something so small without all the drama of a nitrous snorting V8. When I summarised some of the amazing tax benefits of running and EV through a company he was even more inquisitive as he 'had some tax to waste'.

I don’t think I've ever seen someone's views change so radically so quickly !

To wrap up, I jokingly suggested how I'd love to mention our drive on a car forum and he politely but firmly asked me not to … as he might never live it down, and his customers would look to have him sectioned, and others would demand refunds.

[daniel]

^ Great story! Thanks.


Maybe Tesla will offer a Sport motor/PEM upgrade in the future? :)
I wouldn't spend the money. I made a decision that I didn't need the Sport version, and I still feel that way. But keep in mind that my daily driver before the Roadster was a Zap Xebra SD. :biggrin:

[NigelM]

I had a very interesting passenger this week, but I have been sworn to secrecy about who, and which rather well known exotic car company he owns.

I think some of us know who your John is....:wink:

[scott451]

Do you have a 1.5 or 2.x? As far as max torque goes, on a 1.5 the max torque (281) is the same standard vs performance. 2.x it is 265 standard vs 273 performance (295 sport)

[daniel]

Mine is a 2.5 non-Sport. Very Orange. That's the fastest color, right? :biggrin:

[daniel]

Also acceleration may be tire-limited (ie tires are cold) and if so there won't be a difference because TC is limiting power in both modes.
Interesting. We had a couple of nice days (it's been a long and chilly spring in Spokane) and twice I went for a long walk on the trail along the river. Each time, it felt as though the car was quicker on the way home. I thought it must be my imagination, but maybe the tires were a bit warmer after being outside for a couple of hours, instead of sitting in my cold garage.

[AndrewBissell]

My Roadster is close to 3 years old, with 21000 miles. It is still within 1 or 2% of its original

Can you please remind me how you know this? I believe there is a battery health monitoring project - can you point me at the right place to join?

[richkae]

Can you please remind me how you know this? I believe there is a battery health monitoring project - can you point me at the right place to join?

The thread for the battery health study is here: Roadster Owner Based Study of Battery Pack Capacity Over Time (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6491-Roadster-Owner-Based-Study-of-Battery-Pack-Capacity-Over-Time)
There are instructions for where to get the log parser. Collect a log file from your car every 2-3 months - save them forever. Run the log parser over all of them and send in the results every 3-6 months or so ( make sure you download the latest log parser as improvements may have been )
Even if you collect log files from the car infrequently, the data is still valuable.

The two ways I use to determine pack capacity are to do a range mode charge, or to look at the output from the logparser ( with -b option ) at the "average brick amp hours" ( brickahave ) and "minimum brick amp hours" ( brickahmin ). My car peaked at 159 amp hours average per brick and is most recently showing 157. A range mode charge still hits 240-242 ideal miles.

[ffylling]

As i have understand this issue, it is the CHARGING- mode that will affect the battery-life, not the select of "driving mode".

Am i wrong?

[wiztecy]

Both have their own impacts. Charging in Range Mode and Performance mode will fill the Battery to a 100% Charge. LiPos Don't like to be fully charged fully, especially just sitting there and then on a very hot day you're asking for it to be very unhappy. Their sweet spot is 50% SOC and anywhere from 50%-80% is good for the roadster hence why charging in Standard Mode is the best habit to have when charging. When you drive in Performance Mode your pulling lots of AMPs which can deteriorate and weaken the battery cells if you make a habit out of it. Standard mode and Range mode driving prevent you from pulling from these AMPs from the pack that you have access in performance mode.

[donauker]

Both performance and range driving modes allow the battery to run at a higher temperature then standard mode allows.