Suggested Tesla Supercharger locations in Florida

[Larry Chanin]

I'd like to start a discussion of proposed Tesla Supercharger locations for Florida that perhaps Tesla will consider in planning their network.

Here's my idea I'd be interested in hearing what other's thoughts are on the subject.

Alligator Alley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_Alley) is a long stretch of I-75 of more than 80miles with only one gas station along the way. It is the only high speed arterial connecting the East and West coasts of Florida in the South.

That solitary gas station is located at exit 49 (http://wikimapia.org/6489527/I-75-Exit-49-County-Road-833)and I believe it is a perfect location for a Tesla Supercharger. In addition to the gas station, there are separate restrooms, parking and shaded picnic area. Three phase power is available next to the restrooms. The property belongs to the Miccosukee Indian Reservation.

Perhaps the Miccosukee Indians would be amenable to Tesla installing one of their Superchargers adjacent to parking spots near their pad-mounted transformer.

Larry

[doug]

Looks a bit desolate, but if it's the only place for miles...

Snake Rd Interstate 75, Big Cypress National Preserve, Broward, Florida - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Snake+Rd+%26+Interstate+75,+Big+Cypress+National+Preserve,+Broward,+Flori da&hl=en&ll=26.150507,-80.969238&spn=1.254877,3.183289&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.410182,68.378906&t=h&geocode=FVFajwEd-Dku-w&hnear=Snake+Rd+%26+Interstate+75,+Broward,+Florida&z=9)

After stretching my legs, I'd probably sit in the car and play with the touchscreen.

[Doug_G]

Well maybe it would be tolerable for a supercharger, but speaking as a Roadster owner that's about the last place I'd want to spend a few hours...

[Norbert]

How about one on the east coast, and one on the west coast? They don't seem to be that far apart (~100 miles), and then you could use each also for other routes.

[Arnold Panz]

How about one on the east coast, and one on the west coast? They don't seem to be that far apart (~100 miles), and then you could use each also for other routes.

That's a much better solution. I've done that drive many times, and I always make sure that I've got plenty of gas to make it across Alligator Alley. Anyone driving there should know that they need to have enough charge to get across the state and top off accordingly on either end of the Alley.

Fun fact: Phish had a 2 day concert extraveganza at the Big Cypress National Preserve around the millenial New Year (2000). I had a friend who went -- it took him almost the whole day to get out of there and drive back to my house (about 50 miles). Would've been awesome to have had a Model S (and the touchscreen) for that traffic jam!

[Larry Chanin]

Looks a bit desolate, but if it's the only place for miles...

Snake Rd Interstate 75, Big Cypress National Preserve, Broward, Florida - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Snake+Rd+%26+Interstate+75,+Big+Cypress+National+Preserve,+Broward,+Flori da&hl=en&ll=26.150507,-80.969238&spn=1.254877,3.183289&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.410182,68.378906&t=h&geocode=FVFajwEd-Dku-w&hnear=Snake+Rd+%26+Interstate+75,+Broward,+Florida&z=9)

After stretching my legs, I'd probably sit in the car and play with the touchscreen.

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the link.

Yes, everything is desolate on Alligator Alley. There are no restaurants or hotels, just rest stops and this solitary gas station. You absolutely don't want to run out of gas or charge on that highway!


By the way, thanks very much for setting up local groups.


Larry

[NigelM]

Agree with Larry that Alligator Alley needs something, but Norbert is right.....

Tesla is at the Miami end (or will be when the new store opens) as are other charging stations. At the Naples end I would go for exit 101 where all the eating places are. Alternatively go more downtown Naples (Old Naples is only about 6 miles away).

Personally, if I'm going to wait around while the car charges I'd rather do that waiting where I can do something; in SWFL there's a couple of good examples: Main Street in Lakewood Ranch (3 miles to I-75) or Palm Ave in Sarasota (7 miles from the I-75, but 1/2 block from downtown) with easy access by foot to restaurants and stores and even libraries or cinema's.

[Arnold Panz]

For superchargers in Florida, I think the two main interstates (I-75 and I-95) and the Florida Turnpike, should be the main point of focus. I-95 would probably be the first priority because people driving from the northeast (Boston/NY/Philly/DC etc.) would need this, and you'd be going through a series of cities from Jacksonville down to Miami. I-4, which crosses the state east/west would be the other highway that should eventually get superchargers, but those three should definitely be the first priority.

[Larry Chanin]

How about one on the east coast, and one on the west coast? They don't seem to be that far apart (~100 miles), and then you could use each also for other routes.

That might work. The Dania Beach Tesla Store is about 20 miles from the East end of Alligator Alley.

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

For superchargers in Florida, I think the two main interstates (I-75 and I-95) and the Florida Turnpike, should be the main point of focus. I-95 would probably be the first priority because people driving from the northeast (Boston/NY/Philly/DC etc.) would need this, and you'd be going through a series of cities from Jacksonville down to Miami. I-4, which crosses the state east/west would be the other highway that should eventually get superchargers, but those three should definitely be the first priority.

Hi Arnold,

Yes, that makes sense.

Larry

[NigelM]

The Dania Beach Tesla Store is about 20 miles from the East end of Alligator Alley.

In a couple of months, there'll hopefully be the choice between Dania Beach and Miami Beach! (BTW, Miami Beach is a lot more fun!! :wink:)

[Larry Chanin]

In a couple of months, there'll hopefully be the choice between Dania Beach and Miami Beach! (BTW, Miami Beach is a lot more fun!! :wink:)

Hi Nigel,

True, but the Miami Beach location is on an island, whereas the Dania Beach location is near the intersections of several highways. :p

Larry

[NigelM]

True, but the Miami Beach location is on an island, whereas the Dania Beach location is near the intersections of several highways. :p

Hmmmm, so while my car charges I can wait here:

4931

Or here?:

4932

[Larry Chanin]

Hmmmm, so while my car charges I can wait here:

4931

Or here?:

4932

Hi Nigel,

Okay, you've pursuaded me. We need to convince Tesla to install Superchargers at BOTH locations!:biggrin:

Larry

[Arnold Panz]

I expect all Telsa stores will have supercharging capabilities.

Coming off Alligator Alley from the west, I'd suggest Sawgrass Mills mall. It's only a couple of miles from the end of the Alley, and people can spend all day shopping there. In fact, Sawgrass is the 2nd most visited tourist attraction in Florida after Disney World. For someone low on battery, those 20 miles or so can make a big difference and avoid range anxiety.

Similarly, I'd like to see a charger at that outlet mall right off I-75 on the Naples side.

[Larry Chanin]

Coming off Alligator Alley from the west, I'd suggest Sawgrass Mills mall. It's only a couple of miles from the end of the Alley, and people can spend all day shopping there. In fact, Sawgrass is the 2nd most visited tourist attraction in Florida after Disney World. For someone low on battery, those 20 miles or so can make a big difference and avoid range anxiety.



Hi Arnold,

Excellent information.



Similarly, I'd like to see a charger at that outlet mall right off I-75 on the Naples side.


Do you mean this one?

Naples Outlet Center (http://www.premiumoutlets.com/outlets/outlet.asp?id=95)

Larry

[DavidM]

You guys read my mind. I agree with Arnold and Larry. Supercharger locations east and west of Alligator Alley. Naples, near the highway is great, and you're right, Tesla will have supercharger locations at all their stores. We just need to make sure that the superchargers are accessible when the store is closed, right?

[Charged_Up]

sawgrass would be a logical location for a supercharger. But I'd also like to see decent chargers at places like national parks and wildlife refuges - ideal places where the car will be idle for a period of time and where there is a pleasant couple of hours of diversion - places like the tip of the Everglades at Flamingo or Loxahatchee (Arthur Marshall NWF) which is near Delray Beach. anyone with ideas on how to influence national parks and other reserved locations?

[tdelta1000]

Larry, that's a good start for Tesla's supercharging network but I think there could be three stations on the Alligator Alley. Here are my considerations: The first stop after the toll plaza on the East entrance of the Alley, the second station would be the stop Larry is talking about and my last consideration would be the last stop prior to the western Toll plaza exit of the Alley.

[Arnold Panz]

Do you mean this one?

Naples Outlet Center (http://www.premiumoutlets.com/outlets/outlet.asp?id=95)

Larry

Actually, I was thinking about this one:

http://www.miromaroutlets.com/

Right off of I-75 and only a few miles from the Alley. But I think all malls should have superchargers, so no need to choose between them! :biggrin:

[ElSupreme]

Ok going to make some people mad here but ... don't put superchargers where people will park for hours. Perhaps a couple restaurants but not malls, national parks, theme parks. You want regular 10kW or 20kW chargers at the places you park at for 2-3 hours or more. You want superchargers where you only park for 30-45 minutes.

[Kevin Sharpe]

don't put superchargers where people will park for hours. Perhaps a couple restaurants but not malls, national parks, theme parks. You want regular 10kW or 20kW chargers at the places you park at for 2-3 hours or more. You want superchargers where you only park for 30-45 minutes.Agreed... anything else is just silly!

[Arnold Panz]

Ok going to make some people mad here but ... don't put superchargers where people will park for hours. Perhaps a couple restaurants but not malls, national parks, theme parks. You want regular 10kW or 20kW chargers at the places you park at for 2-3 hours or more. You want superchargers where you only park for 30-45 minutes.

This is generally true, and along interstates like I-95, for example, I'd expect the superchargers to be at the regular rest stations where you can grab a bite to eat and go to the bathroom while the car charges and be on your way. Alligator Alley is a unique problem because the road is totally remote and desolate -- it goes straight through the Everglades and is fenced on both sides to avoid the alligators (and other wildlife) from coming onto the road. There are no traditional rest stops like you'd see on a normal interstate highway, and I would fully expect that people coming from either direction will want to top off their battery before heading onto the Alley, so the question becomes where to put the superchargers near the entrances to the Alley that wouldn't leave someone twiddling their thumbs for 30-45 minutes.

[ElSupreme]

I grew up in Tampa. Believe me I know about Alligator Alley. That is spooky to drive across with a full tank of gas. I did it once at about 2AM and would never do that again. I would highly recommend Superchargers very close to both sides.

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up. If you put them at malls you will have to hire valets to shuffle cars around and charge them properly, I would be so pissed if I was trying to cross the state and someone who was shopping for 3 hours had the Supercharge all tied up. Superchargers I believe should operate like gas pumps, you need to sort of sit and wait on them. You can get regular 240VAC 70A chargers where you park for 2-3 hours. I would recommend an Ice Cream store with super charger on both sides. Having a cool treat for a half hour would be great for 9-10 months out of the year.

[Larry Chanin]

Actually, I was thinking about this one:

http://www.miromaroutlets.com/

Right off of I-75 and only a few miles from the Alley. But I think all malls should have superchargers, so no need to choose between them! :biggrin:

Hi Arnold,

I like stopping there, but its in Estero, 25 miles from Naples. :smile:

Larry

[Norbert]

Superchargers I believe should operate like gas pumps, you need to sort of sit and wait on them.

Agree with much of what you say, but not this part. I'd like to do something other than waiting or having just one choice like eating burgers. 30 - 60 min will be perceived as losing too much time unless one can do something useful during this time. If there are useful things to do, one loses less time than at a gas station. I think parking lots close to streets with lots of restaurants, coffee shops, other shops are ideal. In some cases it could be malls as well, if they are nice places to stay even if you don't want to buy something. But I agree that a movie theatre wouldn't be the best choice (unless maybe we some day we'll have them almost everywhere).

[tdelta1000]

Another idea for the Florida Tesla Super charging network is placing units at every Florida Turnpike Service Plaza.

[NigelM]

Another idea for the Florida Tesla Super charging network is placing units at every Florida Turnpike Service Plaza.

A good point, and someone recently had the sense to try the idea: EV Charging Coming To Pennsylvania Pike (http://www.earthtechling.com/2011/12/ev-charging-coming-to-pennsylvania-pike/)

[Warrenbonz]

Another idea for the Florida Tesla Super charging network is placing units at every Florida Turnpike Service Plaza.

+1...

[Norbert]

Florida's Turnpike - The Less Stressway | Traveler Information | Service Plazas (http://www.floridasturnpike.com/tools_serviceplazas.cfm)


The service plazas on Florida's Turnpike are open 24-hours a day and typically offer a variety of fast food dining options, gift shops, ATMs, Florida Lottery, public telephones, 24-hour news broadcasts, travel information, picnic areas, dog walks, and other amenities. Both men's and women's restrooms have changing tables and each plaza also has a family-style restroom.

[tdelta1000]

Another idea for the Tesla Super charging network could be installing the units every six on/off ramps on I-95 and I-75. This should give Roadster, Model S and Model X (when they come online) owners the satisfaction that a Tesla Motors Super charge is really close.

As for I-4, the network could have charges in Daytona, Deltona, Altamonte Springs, Orlando ( Two locations), Celebration, Plant City, I-4/I-75 exchange, Tampa and St. Petesburgh.

[Larry Chanin]

Another idea for the Tesla Super charging network could be installing the units every six on/off ramps on I-95 and I-75. This should give Roadster, Model S and Model X (when they come online) owners the satisfaction that a Tesla Motors Super charge is really close.

As for I-4, the network could have charges in Daytona, Deltona, Altamonte Springs, Orlando ( Two locations), Celebration, Plant City, I-4/I-75 exchange, Tampa and St. Petesburgh.

Thanks.

Can you be more specific?

When I started this thread I was hoping that as locals we might be able to assist Tesla in planning their Supercharger network by suggesting specific Florida locations, and by citing various features, i.e. restaurants, restrooms, etc., that would make the location appealing to Tesla.

With regard to Roadsters, I was under the impression that they don't have the capability for DC fast charging, even with a Tesla Supercharger.

Larry

[domenick]

I think another good spot would be near the 427 exit of I95 at Lake City. This is en route to Atlanta (288 miles south) from Daytona, Orlando and Tampa, but also close to I10 for people traveling East to West.

[tdelta1000]

Thanks.

Can you be more specific?

When I started this thread I was hoping that as locals we might be able to assist Tesla in planning their Supercharger network by suggesting specific Florida locations, and by citing various features, i.e. restaurants, restrooms, etc., that would make the location appealing to Tesla.

With regard to Roadsters, I was under the impression that they don't have the capability for DC fast charging, even with a Tesla Supercharger.

Larry

Hey Larry,

I threw some general locations along the I-4 corridor from Daytona to Tampa in the hope people from those areas could provide greater detail. If need be I will add more detail.

[tdelta1000]

Larry and to other members of the Florida community here is my feeble attempt at providing locations for Tesla Motors Florida Supercharging Network. I'm not an expert but my proposal consist of 10 units in total and covers the I-4 corridor from east to west. I selected the locations due to their proximity to restaurants, shops and other services. I welcome your critiques, suggestion and your bashing because I am not the expert and nor do I work for TM. Lol...

Daytona: Mc Donald's 1121 Beville Rd. Daytona Beach, FL 32119 (One Super Charger)

Deltona: Publix Super Market @ Crown Centre 2556 Enterprise Rd. Orange City, FL 32763 (One Super Charger)

Altamonte Springs: Bahama Breeze 499 East Altamonte Dr. Altamonte Springs, FL 32701 (One super Charger)

Orlando: AT&T Store 4006 Conroy Rd. Orlando, FL 32839 (Two Super Chargers)

Celebration: AT&T Store 6081 West Irlo Bronson Memorial Highway Celebration, FL 34747 (One Super Charger)

Lakeland: Mc Donald's 5325 Frontage Rd. South Lakeland, FL 33815 (One Super Charger)

I-4/I-75 connection: Five Guys Burgers & Fires 8606 Elm Fair Blvd. Tampa, FL 33610 (One Super Charger)

Tampa: Season 52 204 North West Shore Blvd. Tampa, FL 33609 (Two Super Chargers)

Again, these are only suggestions that can and will be modified if Tesla Motors implements a Florida Super Charging Network.

[ElSupreme]

Larry and to other members of the Florida community here is my feeble attempt at providing locations for Tesla Motors Florida Supercharging Network. I'm not an expert but my proposal consist of 10 units in total and covers the I-4 corridor from east to west. I selected the locations due to their proximity to restaurants, shops and other services. I welcome your critiques, suggestion and your bashing because I am not the expert and nor do I work for TM. Lol...

Daytona: Mc Donald's 1121 Beville Rd. Daytona Beach, FL 32119 (One Super Charger)

Deltona: Publix Super Market @ Crown Centre 2556 Enterprise Rd. Orange City, FL 32763 (One Super Charger)

Altamonte Springs: Bahama Breeze 499 East Altamonte Dr. Altamonte Springs, FL 32701 (One super Charger)

Orlando: AT&T Store 4006 Conroy Rd. Orlando, FL 32839 (Two Super Chargers)

Celebration: AT&T Store 6081 West Irlo Bronson Memorial Highway Celebration, FL 34747 (One Super Charger)

Lakeland: Mc Donald's 5325 Frontage Rd. South Lakeland, FL 33815 (One Super Charger)

I-4/I-75 connection: Five Guys Burgers & Fires 8606 Elm Fair Blvd. Tampa, FL 33610 (One Super Charger)

Tampa: Season 52 204 North West Shore Blvd. Tampa, FL 33609 (Two Super Chargers)

Again, these are only suggestions that can and will be modified if Tesla Motors implements a Florida Super Charging Network.


This seems REALLY dense to me for super charger coverage. St. Pete to Daytona is only ~160 miles on I-4. I would think they would only need 1 super charger in Orlando, or one on each end to cover all of I-4. I hope that these chargers become as common as gas stations but you don't get more function (just convenience) if they are closer than about 150-200 miles apart.

I think 'full' coverage of Florida is only 9 locations Pensacola, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Titusville, Gainesville, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Naples, and maybe one in Homestead for Key West.

[tdelta1000]

This seems REALLY dense to me for super charger coverage. St. Pete to Daytona is only ~160 miles on I-4. I would think they would only need 1 super charger in Orlando, or one on each end to cover all of I-4. I hope that these chargers become as common as gas stations but you don't get more function (just convenience) if they are closer than about 150-200 miles apart.

I think 'full' coverage of Florida is only 9 locations Pensacola, Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Titusville, Gainesville, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Naples, and maybe one in Homestead for Key West.

If the distance between Daytona and St. Pete is 160 miles, I would agree that my proposed coverage area is too dense. I say three stations should be able to cover the I-4 corridor ( Daytona, Orlando and St. Pete).

As for the rest of Florida, I think a more strategic approach would have to be taken to lay out the remaining units.

[Warrenbonz]

I would suggest adding a supercharger in Lake Wales on route 60 at a Walgreens or restaurant like Perkins to the list for consideration. Lake Wales is pretty central and being 50 miles from Tampa could give people the extra boost to get there, as well as, St Pete., Clearwater etc. Also, this charger woud allow stress free trips between the Tampa/Clearwater/St Pete areas to locations on the east coast like West Palm Beach etc.

[Larry Chanin]

I would suggest adding a supercharger in Lake Wales on route 60 at a Walgreens or restaurant like Perkins to the list for consideration. Lake Wales is pretty central and being 50 miles from Tampa could give people the extra boost to get there, as well as, St Pete., Clearwater etc. Also, this charger woud allow stress free trips between the Tampa/Clearwater/St Pete areas to locations on the east coast like West Palm Beach etc.

Hi Warren,

Sounds like a good location to me.

How about Manny's Chophouse (http://mannyschophouse.com/)?

5230

It looks like a good place to eat off of Rt. 60 and its close to the Rt 27 intersection.

Ever been there?

Larry

[Odenator]

[QUOTE=Arnold Panz;123676

Coming off Alligator Alley from the west, I'd suggest Sawgrass Mills mall. It's only a couple of miles from the end of the Alley, and people can spend all day shopping there. In fact, Sawgrass is the 2nd most visited tourist attraction in Florida after Disney World. For someone low on battery, those 20 miles or so can make a big difference and avoid range anxiety.
[/QUOTE]

Oh god do I miss the Sawgrass Mills mall!

[tdelta1000]

Oh god do I miss the Sawgrass Mills mall!

Odenator... Yes!!!..that's a great location.

[Larry Chanin]

Forum member daxz has setup a ZeeMap application to map these suggested Supercharger locations.

Suggested Supercharger Locations (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8070-Suggested-Supercharger-Locations?p=127377&viewfull=1#post127377)

I posted a few locations.

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

Ok going to make some people mad here but ... don't put superchargers where people will park for hours. Perhaps a couple restaurants but not malls, national parks, theme parks. You want regular 10kW or 20kW chargers at the places you park at for 2-3 hours or more. You want superchargers where you only park for 30-45 minutes.


But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up. If you put them at malls you will have to hire valets to shuffle cars around and charge them properly, I would be so pissed if I was trying to cross the state and someone who was shopping for 3 hours had the Supercharge all tied up. Superchargers I believe should operate like gas pumps, you need to sort of sit and wait on them. You can get regular 240VAC 70A chargers where you park for 2-3 hours. I would recommend an Ice Cream store with super charger on both sides. Having a cool treat for a half hour would be great for 9-10 months out of the year.

I understand your point and, in theory, I agree. However, in examining real-world roads in Florida I noticed that there will be long stretches of major highways where you simply won't find a suitable restaurant or ice cream store right off the highway. In which case I agree with Nigel, I'd rather have a location with a lot of attractions, such as a mall or other points of interest, versus driving off the highway to go to say a McDonalds. In particular, with major points of interest where visitors are being attracted from across the state, a Supercharger would be very useful.

It should be emphasized that Tesla Superchargers are proprietary and only ModelSs, and later Model Xs, will be able to use them. (Even Tesla Roadsters can’t use Superchargers.) So Superchargers are less likely to be clogged up. I do agree that I would be just as annoyed if a Model S were occupying a Supercharger all day as I would be if it were a Leaf. However, the point is that the odds are a lot less of that happening with a proprietary charger. I’m convinced that, just like in California, informal customs will evolve whereby Model S owners will leave notes on their cars permitting others to disconnect them after an hour.

Anyway, with that as background, I've been having fun zooming in with Google maps to find potential Supercharger locations and posting them to the ZeeMap application.

Larry

[NigelM]

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up. ...I would be so pissed if I was trying to cross the state and someone who was shopping for 3 hours had the Supercharge all tied up.

That raises the question of charging etiquette which is a whole other subject, but one which will become more important as more EV's hit the roads. Of course, it also says a lot for apps which tell you when you car has finished charging. Heopfulley people would be decent enough to move their EV once it's fully charged.

[dadaleus]

Tesla should put signage and indicators on the chargers letting everyone know it's okay to unplug a car once the charge is complete.

[NigelM]

Thread on EV parking over here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2812-EV-parking-priority

[Larry Chanin]

But putting super chargers at malls is just going to get them clogged up.


That raises the question of charging etiquette which is a whole other subject, but one which will become more important as more EV's hit the roads. Of course, it also says a lot for apps which tell you when you car has finished charging. Heopfulley people would be decent enough to move their EV once it's fully charged.


Thread on EV parking over here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2812-EV-parking-priority

There's a rather heated discussion over at the EV parking priority thread.

I believe a simple approach which would assist in unclogging chargers, including Tesla Superchargers, is to have a payment system in place whereby a premium is charged when parked after being fully charged. The Supercharger host should have the option of establishing a nominal fee for charging, and that could be free if the host so chooses. However, once the charging is complete, or the Model S has been connected for more that a predetermined time limit, the premium fee should always be imposed and it should be high enough to discourage folks from using the spot for parking more than an hour or so.

So far Tesla has been tight-lipped regarding information regarding the Superchargers, but in my opinion it would be wise to incorporate the option of charging fees, even if initial installations do not charge fees.

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

Recently Elon's statements regarding solar powered Supercharger stations coupled with a news story stating that Tesla is assisting Walmart in installing battery storage at 90 of their stores with PV array has stired some speculation that perhaps Tesla is considering placing their Superchargers at Walmarts.

Here are excerpts from articles discussing this information.

Tesla Supercharger network to feature solar panels, battery swapping (http://green.autoblog.com/2012/06/12/tesla-supercharger-network-to-feature-solar-panels-battery-swap/)


Still, hints as to what is involved with the Superchargers arose during the Q&A session after the main presentation and makes us think that this will indeed be pretty cool.

For example, we expect it to feature battery swapping (http://green.autoblog.com/tag/battery+swap/). Long a controversial concept in the electric vehicle community, it is clear that Tesla is going to employ it in some fashion. Whether it will be available for every pack size – the Model S (http://green.autoblog.com/tag/tesla+model+S/) comes with either a 40-, 60- or 85-kWh pack – is not yet known, but it shouldn't prevent you from retaining ownership of a specific pack. While fast charging your 85-kWh Model S might take around 45 minutes using the 90-kW station with its proprietary connector, the battery packs are engineered to enable a swap as quickly as one minute.

Another prominent feature will be solar panels. Musk is a big proponent of solar energy and it's been reported (http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/26/tesla-solarcity-work-on-solar-powered-energy-storage-systems/) that Tesla and SolarCity (http://green.autoblog.com/tag/solarcity/) (where he also serves as chairman) are working together to create rooftop solar storage systems. What better place (http://green.autoblog.com/tag/better+place/), we rhetorically ask with no pun intended, to implement such a scheme than atop stations stuffed with batteries. Musk says the panels will help illustrate the connection between sustainable power production and electric transport and go some way to combat the long tailpipe argument.


Green Energy: Cars, Fuel, and Solar (TSLA, WMT, ASTI, AAPL, KIOR) - 24/7 Wall St. (http://247wallst.com/2012/08/14/green-energy-cars-fuel-and-solar-tsla-wmt-asti-aapl-kior/#ixzz25IOZHNY3)


Hedging its bets, Tesla has also agreed to install battery storage systems at 90 stores around the country owned by Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE: WMT (http://247wallst.dailyfinance.com/quote/nyse/wal-mart-stores/wmt)) and that have solar PV rooftoop systems. That’s not going to be a major shift in Tesla’s business plan, but it is interesting nonetheless.


So here is the speculation, if you are going to attempt to supplement a Supercharger with solar energy you are going to need a large PV array and a large flat roof to put them on. Walmarts have such roofs. It would be nice if a Supercharger was available around the clock. Many Walmart Supercenters are open 23-1/2 hours per day. It would be nice if a Supercharger was strategically located near major highways. Many, perhaps most, Walmarts are nearby major highways. (Refer to the google map below.) If you are also going to pursue battery swapping at Supercharger stations you need a garage facility with a lift. Many Supercenters have tire centers which could easily be adapted to include this operation.

9377

To have some fun further speculating, obtain an interactive map of these locations by going to google maps and search on Walmart Supercenters, FL. Then zoom in to find candidate locations.

Here's and example, the Supercenter at Ormonds Beach is located right off of I-95 and it has a Tire & Lube operation, and its open 23-1/2 hours.

9378

Larry

[NigelM]

It would arguably make sense for Tesla to get in on the FL Turnpike charge station developments.....

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/9869-Florida-Turnpike-Service-Plazas-Charge-Stations

[Larry Chanin]

Tesla should put signage and indicators on the chargers letting everyone know it's okay to unplug a car once the charge is complete.

Jason,

I believe that once the car is locked the Supercharging connector is locked to the charging port.

Now that you have your Model S and the California Supercharger stations are up an running you can test this theory. :smile:

Larry

[jerry33]

I believe that once the car is locked the Supercharging connector is locked to the charging port.

You can see the locking in action here (http://www.youtube.com/goodwinb99). The supercharger won't be any different from the UMC or J1772 adaptor. The question is does any Model S fob unlock the charge port, or just the one from the specific car?

[Larry Chanin]

Jerry,

Good question, but I'm betting that you have to unlock the car to unlock the charging port. Hopefully one of our California owners can confirm the operation.

Larry

[NigelM]

The locking pin is the same on the supercharger as on the UMC. Mine only releases when I unlock the car.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Hello, everyone!

I keep seeing people suggest 200-mile intervals between Superchargers, but please remember that they are intended for cars with both 60 and 85 kWh battery packs. If the Superchargers are much more than ~120 miles apart, they won't help those with the smaller battery. That 120-mile figure is roughly 80% of max range for the 60 kWh battery pack. So 100-mile or 120-mile intervals sound like the maximum that's realistically effective at fulfilling Tesla's objectives and not causing a lot of discontent from owners of 60-kWh cars.

[Larry Chanin]

Hello, everyone!

I keep seeing people suggest 200-mile intervals between Superchargers, but please remember that they are intended for cars with both 60 and 85 kWh battery packs. If the Superchargers are much more than ~120 miles apart, they won't help those with the smaller battery. That 120-mile figure is roughly 80% of max range for the 60 kWh battery pack. So 100-mile or 120-mile intervals sound like the maximum that's realistically effective at fulfilling Tesla's objectives and not causing a lot of discontent from owners of 60-kWh cars.

Hi Rodolfo,

You are correct 200 mile intervals are way too far apart. Realistically even 85 kWh batteries can't make that distance at interstate highway speeds with the air conditioning on. I don't have to say how important it is to be able to do the speed limit with the A/C on in Florida. :wink:

Fortunately, Tesla knows this and sets the distance at more reasonable distances.

Tesla Supercharger network (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8590-Tesla-Supercharger-network?p=213591&viewfull=1#post213591)

Larry

[NigelM]

You are correct 200 mile intervals are way too far apart. Realistically even 85 kWh batteries can't make that distance at interstate highway speeds with the air conditioning on.

After some real world driving with Model S over the last couple weeks, I have to disagree. I've driven >200 miles with 2 adults, 2 children and a dog with a/c on and entertainment on...and had plenty of range to spare at the end. This was cruising at 65-70mph and no drafting.

Granted I spent more time driving than if I had been cruising at 80mph, but then I would also have needed to stop and recharge (plus risk of tickets :wink:). It's a trade-off with EVs, tortoise versus the hare story...

[Larry Chanin]

After some real world driving with Model S over the last couple weeks, I have to disagree. I've driven >200 miles with 2 adults, 2 children and a dog with a/c on and entertainment on...and had plenty of range to spare at the end. This was cruising at 65-70mph and no drafting.

Granted I spent more time driving than if I had been cruising at 80mph, but then I would also have needed to stop and recharge (plus risk of tickets :wink:). It's a trade-off with EVs, tortoise versus the hare story...

Thanks Nigel,

However, if you're a Tesla planner you definitely don't want to space Superchargers 200 miles apart based on a single leg of a trip driven at or below the speed limit. You have to base your planning on doing multiple legs of a journey at or above the speed limit.

Here's how I'd arrive at a spacing:

Using Tesla's Range vs. Speed chart (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range)a 85 kWh Model S should have a range of 240 mile in Range mode when driving at a constant 70 mph with no A/C. However, if you are planning a long journey with multiple Supercharging stops it would be prudent to do your planning based on charging in Standard mode. That brings the range down to 216 miles without A/C. Tesla advises that driving with the climate control on can further reduce range by 10-15%. The 15% is probably for cold climates with the heat on so let's just use a 10% reduction. That reduces the range to 194 miles.

Now realistically if you are planning a long trip you're probably not going want to wait for a charge of near 200 miles of range because the Supercharger tapers off the rate of charge greatly as it exceeds 50% state of charge. As the battery fills the Supercharger slows down to the rate of a home charger. Although it would take only 30 minutes to obtain 150 miles of range, it would take hours to charge to 200 miles. So the Supercharger is no longer a fast charger. People taking long journey are not going to want to wait hours at each Supercharger station.

Finally, Tesla planners have to consider that the spacing must also accommodate 60 kWH batteries. If you do similar caculations and reduce the range proportionally to account for the reduced battery size the range at a constant 70 mph with A/C on is about 149 miles.

As I mentioned in my previous posting Tesla has apparently considered this and all but one of their California Supercharger spacings accommodated this limited range.

If I were planning Supercharger spacing ideally it would be at most 150 miles, 120 would be better to permit 60 kWh cars to more realistically travel at 80 mph with the A/C, something the vast majority of Florida drivers do.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Larry

[NigelM]

Understood, but I'm still not completely convinced that the trade off is worth it. Look at the tortoise/hare example:

We set off simultaneously on a 350 mile journey...

I drive 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes then drive the rest of the way. At 70mph my total time 5 1/2 hours.
You drive at 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes, drive another 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes and drive the rest of the way. At 80mph your total time a little over 5 1/2 hours.

They're pretty much the same, what you gain from driving faster is lost by having to charge more often. Consider the environmental impact and additional resources needed to install so many more superchargers and question is it worth it?

[Larry Chanin]

Understood, but I'm still not completely convinced that the trade off is worth it. Look at the tortoise/hare example:

We set off simultaneously on a 350 mile journey...

I drive 200 miles and charge for 30 minutes then drive the rest of the way. At 70mph my total time 5 1/2 hours.
You drive at 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes, drive another 150 miles, charge for 30 minutes and drive the rest of the way. At 80mph your total time a little over 5 1/2 hours.

They're pretty much the same, what you gain from driving faster is lost by having to charge more often. Consider the environmental impact and additional resources needed to install so many more superchargers and question is it worth it?

Owners with 85 kWh batteries are of course free to travel as they deem appropriate.

It is true that for your specific example the trip durations are about the same, but what is it worth to you to have an extra restroom and brief food break especially if you are traveling with children? :wink:

More importantly spacing Superchargers at 200 mile intervals would require 60 kWh cars to travel at 55 mph on interstate highways with the air conditioning turned off inorder to manage the distance then they would have to charge for a few hours and repeat at the next Supercharger location.

Here is what Tesla has already done for the spacing of the California Superchargers:

Folsom to Gilroy ..................................................169 miles

Gilroy to Harris ...................................................112 miles

Harris to Tejon .....................................................116 miles

Tejon to LA .......................................................... 91 miles

LA to Barstow .......................................................121miles

I believe the spacing is about right and I do believe that it is worth it.

Larry

[NigelM]

Guess that depends on how you see the 60kWh battery pack? Personally I wouldn't consider it a road trip car, well at least not on any sort of regular basis. Of course if Tesla is going to put superchargers every 100 miles or so I wonder why amy of us bothered to buy the 85kWh version....:wink:

Tesla is still pretty California-centric but I wonder how many superchargers FL would really need/get if they're to be every ~100miles?

BTW Larry, I'm also becoming increasingly certain that with our flat terrain I could get 400 miles out of a charge if we could find the right route.

[Larry Chanin]

Guess that depends on how you see the 60kWh battery pack? Personally I wouldn't consider it a road trip car, well at least not on any sort of regular basis. Of course if Tesla is going to put superchargers every 100 miles or so I wonder why amy of us bothered to buy the 85kWh version....:wink:

Elon has recently spoken on the subject and he feels that the 40 kWh battery pack should not be considered a road trip car. It seems that the 60 kWh battery pack was always considered for the Supercharging network, it was just the pricing of the access to the network that was up in the air for a while.



Tesla is still pretty California-centric but I wonder how many superchargers FL would really need/get if they're to be every ~100miles?

I would be happy if the Florida Supercharger intervals were between 125-150 miles.


BTW Larry, I'm also becoming increasingly certain that with our flat terrain I could get 400 miles out of a charge if we could find the right route.
Yes, no doubt if you could travel slow enough without getting rear-ended by the faster traffic. :wink:

Larry

[Nickjhowe]

My only regular long distance trip is from Boca Raton to my mother-in-law's in The Villages. Fort Drum Service Plaza on the TP would be ideal, but it is probably too far to be the only supercharge between Miami and Orlando. Somewhere near the Fort Pierce TP/I-95 intersection would be a better location for Miami/Orlando. Somewhere near the TP/I-4 intersection would probably be good too.

Or I could just do the whole 220 mile journey on one charge at 60mph - NOT!

[Larry Chanin]

My only regular long distance trip is from Boca Raton to my mother-in-law's in The Villages. Fort Drum Service Plaza on the TP would be ideal, but it is probably too far to be the only supercharge between Miami and Orlando. Somewhere near the Fort Pierce TP/I-95 intersection would be a better location for Miami/Orlando. Somewhere near the TP/I-4 intersection would probably be good too.

Or I could just do the whole 220 mile journey on one charge at 60mph - NOT!

Hi Nick,

Did you have any specific suggestions regarding a potential host locations that would have the necessary amenities?

I noticed a Cracker Barrel Restaurant at Rt-70 between I-95 and the Turnpike and an RV resort in that vicinity.

There's a Fuddruckers located near the intersection of the Tunpike and I-4.

Larry

[Anzir]

Hi Nick,

Did you have any specific suggestions regarding a potential host locations that would have the necessary amenities?

I noticed a Cracker Barrel Restaurant at Rt-70 between I-95 and the Turnpike and an RV resort in that vicinity.

There's a Fuddruckers located near the intersection of the Tunpike and I-4.

Larry

The best place for the Supercharger in Orlando would probably be the Mall at Milennia. It's right off the intersection of I-4 and the turnpike.

[Larry Chanin]

The best place for the Supercharger in Orlando would probably be the Mall at Milennia. It's right off the intersection of I-4 and the turnpike.

The Mall at Milennia might be an excellent location, especially since a Tesla store is eventually planned for that location.

However, it may be unnecessary to have a Supercharger located in Orlando because there are some at hotels there where one can obtain a full charge overnight.

In other words Orlando is a major destination. The initial allocation of Superchargers probably should be located between major destinations rather than at them.

Larry

[Anzir]

Actually, I think it would make perfect sense as Orlando is the crossroads of Florida with I4 connecting both coasts and the turnpike running N/S.

Of course, having a supercharger nearby would be just plain cool :D

[npiwovar]

I spent yesterday morning at the Dania Beach store/service center getting my new 21 inch wheels and asked about new supercharger stations.The only feedback I got was that Orlando was a certainty for a supercharger station.No guess as to time frame.

[lolachampcar]

The latest blog posting mentions a Florida supercharger. Any buz on where this might land?

[npiwovar]

My bet is Orlando.

[kvietor]

Vero Beach.

[Larry Chanin]

It would be best to start off placing Superchargers in Florida off of major highways BETWEEN major destinations

Vero Beach off of I-95 would make sense.

Miromar off of I-75 would also make sense.

Orlando is a destination with a lot of existing Level 2 chargers, with some of them at hotels. So people doing roadtrips could do overnight charging. A Supercharger at Orlando might happen eventually, but it would be better to start off placing them between major destinations rather than at destinations with chargers.

Larry

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

It would be best to start off placing Superchargers in Florida off of major highways BETWEEN major destinations

Agreed. I4 between Tampa and Orlando (Plant City, Lakeland, Kissimmee possibly) & I75 Naples area would be good places to start.

[Chas F]

I think I 95 around Melbourne make sense. From there Miami and Jacksonville are within reach of the 60kWh and 85kWh traveling up the east coast and also from Orlando.

[lolachampcar]

Has anyone seen construction or otherwise have word from Tesla?

[xhawk101]

Any news on where these supercharger might be placed in Florida?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Chas F]

Any news on where these supercharger might be placed in Florida?

A more recent thread:

Florida Supercharger??? Any word on where? (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/15115-Florida-Supercharger-Any-word-on-where)

[caddieo]

I think I 95 around Melbourne make sense. From there Miami and Jacksonville are within reach of the 60kWh and 85kWh traveling up the east coast and also from Orlando.
If in the future you need to travel all the way up I-95 to SC, NC, VA, DC or NY, you'll need to charge somewhere in NE Florida-either before or after Jacksonville. The I-10 corridor between Jacksonville and Tallahassee could also use some attention. Something close the the I-75/I-10 junction would be useful for west coast folk going up to Atlanta or west to Tallahassee/Pensacola.

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

If in the future you need to travel all the way up I-95 to SC, NC, VA, DC or NY, you'll need to charge somewhere in NE Florida-either before or after Jacksonville. The I-10 corridor between Jacksonville and Tallahassee could also use some attention. Something close the the I-75/I-10 junction would be useful for west coast folk going up to Atlanta or west to Tallahassee/Pensacola.
I75/I10 interchange will most definitely need a supercharger location. It is a logical place for one.

[NigelM]

A more recent thread:

Florida Supercharger??? Any word on where? (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/15115-Florida-Supercharger-Any-word-on-where)

Mod Note: too much overlap so I merged the threads. There's enough in the works to expect that we'll see some developments over the next 12 months so I'm also making this thread a sticky for the time being.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

OK, long post alert!! But bear with me, OK? Here's some very concrete thinking on the possible locations for Florida Superchargers. If someone can show me how to make a Google map (or use whatever other tool) to show all these points and the various distances between them, I'd be most grateful.

I'm trying to keep the spacing to about 100 miles between Superchargers in the belief that (a) this would be ideal for people traveling in 60's, and (b) it would allow Tesla to start placing a few Superchargers at 200-mile intervals (e.g. SC-2, SC-4, SC-6, and SC-8) so that at least 85's can travel more easily, then go back for a second round of installations to fill in the 100-mile intervals it missed on the first pass. Where I see alternatives, I've noted them together in one paragraph because they're meant to become only one installation.

This is about as far as I can reasonably go, but it seems to me that with these 9 locations you can comfortably cover a large chunk of Florida.

Notes:

* Where cities are mentioned, distances are measured to whatever Google considers the city point (eg. enter "Orlando, FL" into Google Maps).
* All distances are in miles.
* My locations are chosen simply to represent specific points, though some (like the malls) are likely to be good candidates. I suggest we zero in on locations within a 5-mile radius of my selections.

East Coast


SC-1. Right where the Turnpike starts (Mile Marker 0), near the "Florida Keys Outlet Center". Roughly 125 from Key West. Low priority as it probably doesn't have that much traffic.

SC-2. Near the intersection of the Turnpike and I-595, or in Sawgrass Mills Mall. Seeks to serve both north-south traffic and traffic traversing Alligator Alley, but is biased towards east-west traffic since SC-1 and SC-3 can be driven in one leg by 85's (north-south 60's would incur a slight detour to use this location). Roughly 60 from SC-1, 105 from SC-3, 110 from SC-6, 210 from SC-9 in Orlando.

SC-3. Seeking quick access from both the Turnpike and I-95, something near the Hampton Inn & Suites Ft. Pierce (1985 Reynolds Drive, Fort Pierce, FL 34945). Roughly 105 from SC-2, 75 from SC-4, 120 from Miami, 110 from SC-9 in Orlando, and 80-100 from Cocoa Beach, Kennedy Space Center, and so on.

SC-4. On I-95 near other roads like SR-528 and SR-192, something near Days Inn Cocoa Cruiseport West Hotel (5600 Florida 524, Cocoa, FL 32926). Roughly 75 from SC-3, 90 from SC-5, 195 from Miami, 45 from Orlando, 60 from east end of I-4.



SC-5. On I-95, in or near Palm Harbor Shopping Center (Palm Coast, FL). Roughly 90 from SC-4, 80 from Orlando, 80 from Gainesville, 65 from Jacksonville, 165 from Tampa.



West Coast

SC-6. Something near Miromar Outlets (Corkscrew Road, Estero, FL), just outside Naples headed north. Roughly 110 from SC-2, 110 from SC-7, 145 from Tampa, 205 from SC-9 in Orlando.

SC-7. Seeking convenience for people going to/from both St. Petersburg and Tampa, something near Ellenton Premium Outlets (5461 Factory Shops Boulevard, Ellenton, FL 34222). Roughly 40 from Tampa, 50 from Clearwater Beach, 110 from SC-6, 105 from SC-8.

SC-8. Something near the intersection of I-75, the Turnpike, and US-44. Roughly 105 from SC-7, 53 from SC-9 in Orlando.



Central


SC-9. Seeking quick access from both I-4 and the Turnpike, something near the Festival Bay Mall (International Drive, 5250 International Drive, Orlando, FL 32819). Roughly 53 from SC-8, 105 from SC-7, 110 from SC-3, 45 from SC-4, 80 from SC-5.



Comments?

[Anzir]

Central


SC-9. Seeking quick access from both I-4 and the Turnpike, something near the Festival Bay Mall (International Drive, 5250 International Drive, Orlando, FL 32819). Roughly 53 from SC-8, 105 from SC-7, 110 from SC-3, 45 from SC-4, 80 from SC-5.



Comments?

Makes most sense at the Millennia Mall. Literally less than a mile from the turnpike/I-4 intersection.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Just had a thought... all of this work is not going to help anyone if it doesn't end up in Tesla's hands so they can consider it. Do we know of anyone at Tesla involved in the Supercharger planning and rollout?

- - - Updated - - -


Makes most sense at the Millennia Mall. Literally less than a mile from the turnpike/I-4 intersection.

Thanks. I want to figure out how to place all these locations into a Google map, and then I'll update SC-9 with your suggestion.

[Cheerose]

How about something like this? - Tesla Superchargers - Florida - Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/WNduZ)
Also included the Stores/Service Centers

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

Nice map. Who goes to Tallahassee anyway...

[Cheerose]

I was wondering why the Panhandle doesn't get any love? :) (I've never been there...)

I would add a SC @ the Visitor Center on I-75 just over the GA/FL state line. Of course, GA needs its own set as well. (As well as the other 44 states in the Continental US)

[ClearwaterBchSteve]

I was wondering why the Panhandle doesn't get any love? :) (I've never been there...)
Somewhere west of Lake City on I-10 would round it out nicely.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I was wondering why the Panhandle doesn't get any love? :) (I've never been there...)

I really intended to finish Florida, but it took me several attempts to find a set of places that met both of the key conditions: first, good candidate locations; and second, roughly 100 miles from the next Supercharger in any direction. Moving any of them had ripple effects on the locations of the others.

Great map! I tried to edit and add another location, but all existing locations disappear when I try to do so. Where can I find instructions on how to create/edit this map? Do you mind if I start with yours?

[Cheerose]

Send me a PM with your email address... and I'll add you as a "Collaborator"

[DVCLIFFORD]

The best location is Corkscrew Rd, exit 123 in Estero, FL....At Miromar Outlet Mall. Right at the exit with plenty to do, Germaine Arena next door, also. It is exactly 1/2 way (140miles to both Tampa and Miami).....This location screams of perfection. Do a full charge, there, then you don't have to nurse your way across the Alley.

[Larry Chanin]

The best location is Corkscrew Rd, exit 123 in Estero, FL....At Miromar Outlet Mall. Right at the exit with plenty to do, Germaine Arena next door, also. It is exactly 1/2 way (140miles to both Tampa and Miami).....This location screams of perfection. Do a full charge, there, then you don't have to nurse your way across the Alley.

I absolutely agree.

Here's a site survey I did.

19561

19562

19563

19564

Larry

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Wow. :cool:

OK... I'm going to try to find the time to go "site survey" Sawgrass. Larry sets a high bar. :-)

[Larry Chanin]

Wow. :cool:

OK... I'm going to try to find the time to go "site survey" Sawgrass. Larry sets a high bar. :-)

Thanks Rodolfo.

I left out the photos of the restaurants and restrooms. :wink:

Larry

[mdherbst]

This Miramar location would be perfect for me, too! I would also like to see one between Tampa and Orlando on I-4.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

This Miramar location would be perfect for me, too! I would also like to see one between Tampa and Orlando on I-4.

The trick, as I found when doing this exercise, is siting them so that each one is in a high-traffic area, but also so that they are a suitable distance away from the "next" Supercharger in every direction. When I tried to "build out" the network, I couldn't come up with a good reason to put one there.

But that's not my neck of the woods, so I'm likely to miss something in terms of needs or traffic patterns. Tampa to Orlando is only about 85 miles total... an easy trip for any Tesla if either of those is your endpoint. So who would be needing a Supercharger in that corridor? Naples to Orlando? Or what trip?

[Larry Chanin]

The trick, as I found when doing this exercise, is siting them so that each one is in a high-traffic area, but also so that they are a suitable distance away from the "next" Supercharger in every direction. When I tried to "build out" the network, I couldn't come up with a good reason to put one there.

But that's not my neck of the woods, so I'm likely to miss something in terms of needs or traffic patterns. Tampa to Orlando is only about 85 miles total... an easy trip for any Tesla if either of those is your endpoint. So who would be needing a Supercharger in that corridor? Naples to Orlando? Or what trip?

Rodolfo,

I assume you have no problem with the numerous positive remarks about Miromar Outlet Mall. So suppose for the sake of argument we put a Supercharger there. Now suppose you want to go to Orlando. That's a 213 mile trip. Placing another Supercharger near I-4 and I-75 would split the distance nicely.

I should point out for comparison purposes that the distance between the Tejon and LA Superchargers is only 91 miles.

Larry

- - - Updated - - -


This Miramar location would be perfect for me, too! I would also like to see one between Tampa and Orlando on I-4.

Do you have an idea of a specific host location on I-4 that has the necessary amenities?

The Brandon Town Center Mall is located near I-75 and the Selman Expressway. It is also just 5 miles from I-4.

19653

I did a site survey of the Brandon Town Center Mall

19654

19655
This entrance leads to the restaurants and restrooms.

19656
These transformers are located to the left of the entrance.

19657
This is a location in the parking lot for Superchargers.
The transformers in the previous photo are located behind the trash compactor.

Larry

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I assume you have no problem with the numerous positive remarks about Miromar Outlet Mall. So suppose for the sake of argument we put a Supercharger there. Now suppose you want to go to Orlando. That's a 213 mile trip. Placing another Supercharger near I-4 and I-75 would split the distance nicely.

My apologies if it sounded like I was criticizing or attacking his suggestion, that was not at all my intention. I have no attachment to any particular location, just an engineer's obsession with understanding the "why" and "how" all the pieces fit together.

I understand the Miromar-Orlando and Miromar-to-Panhandle need perfectly -- though of course abstractly, since again it's not my neck of the woods -- and that's why I suggested SC-7 at the Ellenton Premium Outlets. My choice of Ellenton was intended to make that Supercharger easily available to those traveling between the Naples area and either St. Petersburg or Tampa. Brandon serves a similar need, but seems to give more relative weight to the east-west traffic towards Orlando and leaves St. Petersburg a little less "connected".

I wanted to understand why Brandon (or anything along that segment) would be better than Ellenton. But again, only to understand, not to impeach. If the locals say A is better than B, then A it is! I'm on board. :-)

[Larry Chanin]

My apologies if it sounded like I was criticizing or attacking his suggestion, that was not at all my intention. I have no attachment to any particular location, just an engineer's obsession with understanding the "why" and "how" all the pieces fit together.

I understand the Miromar-Orlando and Miromar-to-Panhandle need perfectly -- though of course abstractly, since again it's not my neck of the woods -- and that's why I suggested SC-7 at the Ellenton Premium Outlets. My choice of Ellenton was intended to make that Supercharger easily available to those traveling between the Naples area and either St. Petersburg or Tampa. Brandon serves a similar need, but seems to give more relative weight to the east-west traffic towards Orlando and leaves St. Petersburg a little less "connected".

I wanted to understand why Brandon (or anything along that segment) would be better than Ellenton. But again, only to understand, not to impeach. If the locals say A is better than B, then A it is! I'm on board. :-)

To me the most important aspect in citing these Supercharger stations is to find a suitable host, with all the necessary amenities on a strategic route. Less important is to get the distance between the Superchargers precisely correct. Whereas the distances can't be too far apart, (no more than 150 miles in my opinion) if they turn out to be as low as 85-90 miles apart that's okay in my mind. In going through these exercises what we don't know is the difficulties Tesla has had or will have in negotiating with the prospective hosts. That is the key.

With that stated as background, I would have no problem with a Supercharger being located at the Ellenton Premium Outlets if other options were not feasible. The Ellenton location is located off of one North-South arterial, I-75 and one East-West arterial Rt-301. However, Brandon Town Center is located near a nexus of both North-South and East-West arterials. It is located off of I-75 going North-South, the Leroy Selman Expressway going West-East to Tampa, and SR-60 going West-East to eventually connect with the Florida Turnpike, and finally its only 5 miles from I-4 going West-East to Orlando. It is also only a few miles from the Tampa Service Center.

As was mentioned earlier we haven't really directed any attention to routes toward the North. We will probably need a Supercharger off of I-75 in the general vicinity of Gainsville (maybe The Oaks Mall) in order to be able to get to Tallahassee (maybe the Tallahassee Mall). The Brandon location would be better located for trips headed North on I-75 toward Tallahassee.

Larry

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Found a wonderful spot for Superchargers at Sawgrass Mills, near "The Colonnade" area of higher-end shops. Lots of visibility, lots of traffic, as close to a transformer as we're likely to get, and within a stone's throw of three restaurants, a mall entrance, and restrooms. I have pics, but will need a little time to get them ready. Still, I'm very happy with the results of the outing.

[Larry Chanin]

Found a wonderful spot for Superchargers at Sawgrass Mills, near "The Colonnade" area of higher-end shops. Lots of visibility, lots of traffic, as close to a transformer as we're likely to get, and within a stone's throw of three restaurants, a mall entrance, and restrooms. I have pics, but will need a little time to get them ready. Still, I'm very happy with the results of the outing.

Sawgrass Mills might be a good location.

The Galleria Mall at Ft. Lauderdale (http://www.galleriamall-fl.com/) is an upscale location that is strategically located not far from the intersection on I-595 going West to Alligator Alley and I-95 going North and South. I've dined there, but haven't surveyed the location.

Larry

[TI Sailor]

Hi everyone - I'm a new forum member, TSLA stockholder and hopefully future MS owner. I've really appreciated the thoughtful comments and insights provided by other members, especially fellow Floridians.


I'd like to throw my two cents into this discussion by agreeing with Larry's Sept 2012 comment, with the great map, regarding Wal-Mart stores and supercharger locations. It seems to me Tesla, Solar City, and Wal-Mart would all benefit by leveraging and expanding their existing relationship outside of California. Wal-Mart will directly benefit from solar panel installations, as will Solar City. Tesla purchases & supplies batteries, probably lowering their unit cost with the increased volume. Since Solar City (and thus Elon Musk) has an already strong relationship with Wal-Mart, the time from site selection to finished product would be minimized, e.g., no bureaucratic red tape, posturing, etc.


As noted, Wal-Marts are often located within short driving distances of major arteries, like I-75 and I-95. Many are open 24/7, all have public bathrooms and some either a McDonalds or Subway inside. They are always well-lit with good security day and night, and almost always will have plenty of available space for multiple SC installation. Unlike shopping malls, most people don't spend hours shopping at Wal-Marts, thus minimizing SC wait times. Although I realize some owners routinely avoid Wal-Marts, who among us couldn't find something to do in there for 30 minutes on a long-distance trip?


I'd like one of the SC locations to be the new Wal-Mart Supercenter located just east of I-75 on Hwy 70 in the Lakewood Ranch (east Bradenton) area. It's only 2 exits south of the Ellenton Outlets, and still south of the junction of I-75 and I-275 (to St. Pete). I personally think, whenever possible SC's should be located near major artery junctions, like I-75/I-10 and TP/I-75/SR44 mentioned earlier.


It's probably naive to think the Tesla SC team reads these posts and takes notes but, given the breadth, talent and knowledge of forum members, it probably would be wise to do so.


Bill

- - - Updated - - -

Hi everyone - I'm a new forum member, TSLA stockholder and hopefully future MS owner. I've really appreciated the thoughtful comments and insights provided by other members, especially fellow Floridians.


I'd like to throw my two cents into this discussion by agreeing with Larry's Sept 2012 comment, with the great map, regarding Wal-Mart stores and supercharger locations. It seems to me Tesla, Solar City, and Wal-Mart would all benefit by leveraging and expanding their existing relationship outside of California. Wal-Mart will directly benefit from solar panel installations, as will Solar City. Tesla purchases & supplies batteries, probably lowering their unit cost with the increased volume. Since Solar City (and thus Elon Musk) has an already strong relationship with Wal-Mart, the time from site selection to finished product would be minimized, e.g., no bureaucratic red tape, posturing, etc.


As noted, Wal-Marts are often located within short driving distances of major arteries, like I-75 and I-95. Many are open 24/7, all have public bathrooms and some either a McDonalds or Subway inside. They are always well-lit with good security day and night, and almost always will have plenty of available space for multiple SC installation. Unlike shopping malls, most people don't spend hours shopping at Wal-Marts, thus minimizing SC wait times. Although I realize some owners routinely avoid Wal-Marts, who among us couldn't find something to do in there for 30 minutes on a long-distance trip?


I'd like one of the SC locations to be the new Wal-Mart Supercenter located just east of I-75 on Hwy 70 in the Lakewood Ranch (east Bradenton) area. It's only 2 exits south of the Ellenton Outlets, and still south of the junction of I-75 and I-275 (to St. Pete). I personally think, whenever possible SC's should be located near major artery junctions, like I-75/I-10 and TP/I-75/SR44 mentioned earlier.


It's probably naive to think the Tesla SC team reads these posts and takes notes but, given the breadth, talent and knowledge of forum members, it probably would be wise to do so.


Bill

[sunkat]

Rumored supercharger locations | Forums | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/rumored-supercharger-locations?page=3#comment-176814)

I posted it on teslamotors.com forum

[Larry Chanin]

Hi everyone - I'm a new forum member, TSLA stockholder and hopefully future MS owner. I've really appreciated the thoughtful comments and insights provided by other members, especially fellow Floridians.


I'd like to throw my two cents into this discussion by agreeing with Larry's Sept 2012 comment, with the great map, regarding Wal-Mart stores and supercharger locations. It seems to me Tesla, Solar City, and Wal-Mart would all benefit by leveraging and expanding their existing relationship outside of California. Wal-Mart will directly benefit from solar panel installations, as will Solar City. Tesla purchases & supplies batteries, probably lowering their unit cost with the increased volume. Since Solar City (and thus Elon Musk) has an already strong relationship with Wal-Mart, the time from site selection to finished product would be minimized, e.g., no bureaucratic red tape, posturing, etc.


As noted, Wal-Marts are often located within short driving distances of major arteries, like I-75 and I-95. Many are open 24/7, all have public bathrooms and some either a McDonalds or Subway inside. They are always well-lit with good security day and night, and almost always will have plenty of available space for multiple SC installation. Unlike shopping malls, most people don't spend hours shopping at Wal-Marts, thus minimizing SC wait times. Although I realize some owners routinely avoid Wal-Marts, who among us couldn't find something to do in there for 30 minutes on a long-distance trip?


I'd like one of the SC locations to be the new Wal-Mart Supercenter located just east of I-75 on Hwy 70 in the Lakewood Ranch (east Bradenton) area. It's only 2 exits south of the Ellenton Outlets, and still south of the junction of I-75 and I-275 (to St. Pete). I personally think, whenever possible SC's should be located near major artery junctions, like I-75/I-10 and TP/I-75/SR44 mentioned earlier.


It's probably naive to think the Tesla SC team reads these posts and takes notes but, given the breadth, talent and knowledge of forum members, it probably would be wise to do so.


Bill


Hi Bill,

Welcome to the forums.

Larry

[caddieo]

Nix on SC-5 on the east coast. The Palm Harbor shopping center is a relatively dead zone. Nothing to do there. I suggest instead the St. John's Town Center in Jacksonville with loads of shops and restaurants. It might also be a good location for a Tesla store or service center.

[TI Sailor]

Mike Duke, Walmart CEO, quote on 4/15/13. His goal is for Walmart to use 100% renewable energy sources. Expansion of their partnership with Solar City would speed that process.

First, we’re going big on renewable energy. In fact, we’re going to go six times bigger. By the end of 2020, our commitment is to drive the production or procurement of 7 billion kilowatt hours of renewable energy globally. That’s equal to eliminating the need for two fossil fuel power plants.
Second, we’re accelerating energy efficiency. This is above and beyond the efficiency gains we’ve already made. By the end of 2020, we’ll reduce the energy per square foot that we need to power our buildings around the world by 20% versus 2010.
Combined, these new commitments are expected to cap our use of non-renewable electricity at 2010 levels. We forecast that Walmart’s renewable projects will increase from 3% of our global energy use in 2010 to 17% by 2020. Also by 2020, we project renewable energy will supply nearly 30% of the total energy used in our buildings.

[DJ Frustration]

I'm crossing my fingers that we'll find out from Elon somewhat soon what these expanded locations are and when they'll come online.

[Larry Chanin]

I'm crossing my fingers that we'll find out from Elon somewhat soon what these expanded locations are and when they'll come online.

Yes, it would be helpful if he provided a high level plan for those states that have previously been announced to get Superchargers. However, it probably would be unwise to reveal the precise locations for Superchargers that haven't already made it through the permitting process. Such a high profile announcement by Elon might jeapordize the negotiation process with the location host.

Larry

[TI Sailor]

Why do you suppose there's an SC to be located between the Daytona SC and the Jacksonville SC, a distance of only 90 miles? It seems like it would be better to have one nearer Ocala or Gainesville. Of course, as a Gator, I might be just a little biased... :biggrin:

[Chas F]

So much for my planned trip to NC this summer. Oh well, looks like I'll have to wait till Christmas.

[TI Sailor]

While I'm ranting (see above), I'd like to point out the distance from the apparent location of the north Tampa SC to the apparent SC location at the I-75/I-10 intersection is 162 miles per Google Maps. That's doable but not optimal, especially for people driving to or from Orlando on the TP. Hopefully they will reconsider adding sme FL locations between now and 2015. The "St. Augustine" location makes no sense to me if it means a Wildwood/Ocala location is not in the budget.

[sunkat]

Supercharging (https://teslafactory.wufoo.com/forms/supercharging/)

you can suggest SC sites to Tesla here
I suggested the Mall at Millenia, near I-4 & the Turnpike in Orlando

[AnOutsider]

Supercharging (https://teslafactory.wufoo.com/forms/supercharging/)

you can suggest SC sites to Tesla here
I suggested the Mall at Millenia, near I-4 & the Turnpike in Orlando

Is that legit? Why wouldn't Tesla just build a form on their own site?

[NigelM]

Is that legit? Why wouldn't Tesla just build a form on their own site?

That is linked from their site. See the FAQ section on this page: TeslaMotors/Supercharger (http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger)

[robaross]

There is nothing up the center of Florida (the Turnpike to I-75), which is the direct route to Orlando, and north to Gainesville (Univ of FL) and Atlanta. This is an important route for S FL residents and needs to be addressed. Otherwise we are severely limited. This is based on the recently posted supercharger map.

[Larry Chanin]

While I'm ranting (see above), I'd like to point out the distance from the apparent location of the north Tampa SC to the apparent SC location at the I-75/I-10 intersection is 162 miles per Google Maps. That's doable but not optimal, especially for people driving to or from Orlando on the TP. Hopefully they will reconsider adding sme FL locations between now and 2015. The "St. Augustine" location makes no sense to me if it means a Wildwood/Ocala location is not in the budget.


There is nothing up the center of Florida (the Turnpike to I-75), which is the direct route to Orlando, and north to Gainesville (Univ of FL) and Atlanta. This is an important route for S FL residents and needs to be addressed. Otherwise we are severely limited. This is based on the recently posted supercharger map.

At the risk of usurping Nigel moderator duties, :wink: we should take these discussions about suggested locations to the Suggested Tesla Supercharger locations in Florida (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7892-Suggested-Tesla-Supercharger-locations-in-Florida) thread and leave this thread devoted to the Port St. Lucie Supercharger.

The new "dots map" seems to confirm Nigel's point about a Port St. Lucie Supercharger. That location is just south of the south end of the Turnpike and it is only 124 miles from there to Orlando.

I agree that the new Tampa dot (I'm hoping Brandon Town Center Mall (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7892-Suggested-Tesla-Supercharger-locations-in-Florida?p=311936&viewfull=1#post311936)) is too far from the new dot near the intersection of I-75 and I-10. (There is a rest stop on I-10 just a few miles from the intersection.) It would make sense to place a Supercharger in the Gainsville area, perhaps The Oaks Mall (http://www.theoaksmall.com/directory) to get the travel distance between Superchargers more manageable to Model Ss with 60 kWh batteries.

Placing a Supercharger in the Ocala region would do a better job of splitting the distance between the Tampa dot and the I-75/I-10 dot, but suitable host locations near I-75 are scarce. Perhaps Paddock Mall (http://www.simon.com/mall/paddock-mall/stores/list) might work.

Larry

[aviators99]

There is nothing up the center of Florida (the Turnpike to I-75), which is the direct route to Orlando, and north to Gainesville (Univ of FL) and Atlanta. This is an important route for S FL residents and needs to be addressed. Otherwise we are severely limited. This is based on the recently posted supercharger map.

This summer, the Port St. Lucie SC will be open. This totally covers S. Florida to Orlando via the Turnpike. Where do you think one is needed to cover S FL to Orlando other than that? The only other place I can think of is on US 27, which *is* in the center of Florida, but nowhere near the Turnpike. If you're talking about the southern junction of the Turnpike to I-75, I don't see why that would be needed from Miami to Orlando.

I have no opinion on the Gainesville situation.

[TI Sailor]

I'll hazard a guess @robaross was referring, as I was earlier, to leaving Orlando toward Atlanta, and vice-versa. As we're all no doubt aware, a ton of people use I-75 & the TP. In fact, I'd bet everyone west of Atlanta's longitude. Even if you're willing to take the detour to the (apparent) Live Oak SC, it's still a long way to/from Tampa or Orlando e.g., 180+ mi.

FWIW, there's a mall on E SR200 off I-75 just south of Ocala. It's less than 100 mi from Live Oak and 90 or so miles from the Brandon Town Center.

@sunkat - Thanks for the link. I'll post my SC suggestions there, if allowed.

[robaross]

PSL is mile marker 149 and Osceola Pkwy is 249. With added distance to/from WDW you are really pushing it even with range charge. There is virtually no place in Orlando to charge (at WDW) and a round trip is obviuosly not possible. There needs to be a charger along the TPK, possibly at Yeehaw (193).

[TI Sailor]

I submitted 2 SC suggestions this evening on the Tesla site:

1) Paddock Mall (a Simon Mall) in Ocala FL
Location: <1 mi east of I-75 on SR200 (FL Exit 350)
Placement: 94 mi north of Tampa Service Center; 90 mi south of I-75/I-10 intersection.
Stores include Macy's, Sears, Belk, JC Penney, Victoria's Secret and many more.
Nearby restaurants: Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, Ruby Tuesday's, Chuck E. Cheese, and a bunch more

2) Tifton Mall in Tifton GA
Location: 0.2 mi east of I-75 (GA Exit 63A).
Placement: 100 mi north of I-75/I-10 intersection; 94 mi south of I-75/I-475 intersection (Macon,GA).
Stores include Belk, JC Penney, TJ Maxx, Childrens Place, Bath & Body Works, & Dockers.
Nearby restaurants: Red Lobster, Pizza Hut, Subway, Taco Bell, McDonalds, Checkers, and several others

[Rodolfo Paiz]

PSL is mile marker 149 and Osceola Pkwy is 249. With added distance to/from WDW you are really pushing it even with range charge. There is virtually no place in Orlando to charge (at WDW) and a round trip is obviuosly not possible. There needs to be a charger along the TPK, possibly at Yeehaw (193).

I still don't fully grasp where you're coming from. Are you talking about traveling from Miami to/from Orlando? You mention mile markers but no start or end points, so I'm confused.

[aviators99]

PSL is mile marker 149 and Osceola Pkwy is 249. With added distance to/from WDW you are really pushing it even with range charge. There is virtually no place in Orlando to charge (at WDW) and a round trip is obviuosly not possible. There needs to be a charger along the TPK, possibly at Yeehaw (193).

100 miles is really pushing it???

[robaross]

From PSL to Osceola is 100 miles. From Osceola to WDW is 15 miles. There is no place to charge at WDW. Then you come back. That's 230 miles. Since it's mostly 75mph on TPK, that's pushing it. It does not matter where I start the trip (or end) because PSL is not more than 149 miles from the begining (or end) of TPK in Homestead. If SC was at Yeehaw, the round trip to WDW would be 142 miles, and it's still doable from/to Homestead (193 miles).

[Larry Chanin]

To assist in our discusions, here's a zoomed version of an overlay of the Tesla dots:

22984

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

From PSL to Osceola is 100 miles. From Osceola to WDW is 15 miles. There is no place to charge at WDW. Then you come back. That's 230 miles. Since it's mostly 75mph on TPK, that's pushing it. It does not matter where I start the trip (or end) because PSL is not more than 149 miles from the begining (or end) of TPK in Homestead. If SC was at Yeehaw, the round trip to WDW would be 142 miles, and it's still doable from/to Homestead (193 miles).

Hi Robert,

Its true that there are no charging stations at Walt Disney World and that presents us with a big issue as documented in the following thread.
Disney's current position regarding electric chargers (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7904-Disney-s-current-position-regarding-electric-chargers)
However, the Orlando area has the highest concentration of hotels with chargers of any area of the state. We have to tell Disney that whereas we used to stay at their resorts since they have not gone to the effort of installing charging stations at their resorts (except at their RV park) in the future we will be staying at competing Orlando resorts that DO have chargers.

Here's a Map of Florida Hotels with Electric Charging Stations (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202862723324051126823.0004c8228b863631d2e05&msa=0&hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=27.381523,-82.55127&spn=4.681668,7.03125&z=7&source=embed). You can zoom into Orlando to see what I mean.


With regard to your suggestion to place a Supercharger at Yeehaw on the Turnpike, do you have a specific host location in mind that has the necessary amenities?

I should add that even if there were a Supercharger placed on the Turnpike, I would never stay at a Disney resort (even if I could make the round trip with the help of a Supercharger) as long as Disney fails to address the charging situation. We should not reward them for having their head in the sand.

Larry

[robaross]

Amenities are a nice luxury but the ability to charge at the necessary location (distance) is more important. I'd rather sit in my car for an hour and watch a video on a tablet then not be able to make the trip at all. Unfortunately, even if Disney does not provide the services we need, some us still prefer on site accomodations for the other benefits. All I want is for TESLA to make the trip possible for me.

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Now I understand you. But I think that, in this case, you are asking Tesla to do Disney's job (or the hotel's job, etc.). Superchargers are specifically designed to enable long-distance travel from one city to another... and PSL does exactly that. 150 miles to Miami, 100-110 miles to Orlando depending on where you're going: perfect. Once in Orlando, local charging is your responsibility, not Tesla's.

Or, to put it another way, it is Disney who is failing to serve your needs, not Tesla!

Please note that I'm not telling you what to think! I am simply saying that Tesla has never accepted responsibility for local charging, so I don't think there's any chance of them doing what you hope they'll do. Tesla doesn't consider it their job to do what you want... so whether you or I or anyone else might think differently, I think you'll simply have to find other ways to charge in Orlando.

Here's a Walgreens very close to Disney with a 30A Chargepoint charger: 7765 W Irlo Bronson Memorial Hwy (http://maps.yahoo.com/place/?lat=28.339514401027802&lon=-81.59331321716309&q=7765%20W%20Irlo%20Bronson%20Memorial%20Hwy%2C%20Kissimmee%2C%20Florida%2034747&bb=28.41646572483292%2C-81.67253494262695%2C28.262563077222683%2C-81.51409149169922&addr=7765%20W%20Irlo%20Bronson%20Memorial%20Hwy%2C%20Kissimmee%2C%20FL%2034747-1727). I'm sure there are many other publicly-accessible chargers.

[Larry Chanin]

I think the Gainsville/Ocala section needs some attention and I'm not sure what is going on with the Palm Coasts dot, but all in all I'm fairly pleased with the Florida dots.

I was studying the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami dot and wondering if its The Shops at Pembroke Gardens (http://pembrokegardens.com/about-spg/directions/). I've been there and its a very nice town center, with good restaurants and with the ramp to I-75 right across the street. Its close to Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, but not imbedded in either downtown area. If that's the Supercharger location that would be an intelligent choice.

Larry

[xhawk101]

Hi Robert,

Its true that there are no charging stations at Walt Disney World and that presents us with a big issue as documented in the following thread.
Disney's current position regarding electric chargers (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/7904-Disney-s-current-position-regarding-electric-chargers)

However, the Orlando area has the highest concentration of hotels with chargers of any area of the state. We have to tell Disney that whereas we used to stay at their resorts since they have not gone to the effort of installing charging stations at their resorts (except at their RV park) in the future we will be staying at competing Orlando resorts that DO have chargers.

Here's a Map of Florida Hotels with Electric Charging Stations (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202862723324051126823.0004c8228b863631d2e05&msa=0&hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=27.381523,-82.55127&spn=4.681668,7.03125&z=7&source=embed). You can zoom into Orlando to see what I mean.


With regard to your suggestion to place a Supercharger at Yeehaw on the Turnpike, do you have a specific host location in mind that has the necessary amenities?

I should add that even if there were a Supercharger placed on the Turnpike, I would never stay at a Disney resort (even if I could make the round trip with the help of a Supercharger) as long as Disney fails to address the charging situation. We should not reward them for having their head in the sand.

Larry

I can't get those links to work for some reason...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Rodolfo Paiz]

I don't grok the Palm Coast location at all. Under 100 miles from Dayton to Jax, so the north-south travel doesn't explain it, and I see no east-west justificacion either. Maybe I'm missing something since I'm not local. It's especially odd considering there's a rather large hole between Tampa and the next northbound Supercharger.

The Gainesville/Ocala area would seem to be a better choice than Palm Coast to me. There's roughly 180 miles between Tampa and the I-75/I-10 intersection.

[TI Sailor]

I recommended the Paddock Mall, a Simon property in Ocala, as an SC location to Tesla yesterday. Perhaps if other TMC members do the same the need will rise to the level of attention it deserves.

It may be important to point out many owners (and future owners) live in the Tampa Bay area but not necessarily close to the Tampa supercharger dot. It won't make sense to stop there when traveling north with a full range charge from Sarasota, Lakeland or Treasure Island. However, the distance to the Lake City/Live Oak SC dot will be 25 to 50 miles further. That's simply too far for comfort.

FWIW, I looked at the Annual Average Daily Volume (AADV) of traffic on I-75 in Alachua County. It was 80,600 in 2006 and, according to trends, is over 100,000 today. That's a ton of traffic and comparable to I-95 at the same latitude. Many travelers are tourists and snowbirds, some probably driving Teslas. We NEED the SC infrastructure along I-75 to encourage that north > south travel. If the TM budget can't support any more than those SC's already proposed, IMHO the Palm Coast SC should be relocated to the Ocala area.

[Larry Chanin]

Amenities are a nice luxury but the ability to charge at the necessary location (distance) is more important. I'd rather sit in my car for an hour and watch a video on a tablet then not be able to make the trip at all. Unfortunately, even if Disney does not provide the services we need, some us still prefer on site accomodations for the other benefits. All I want is for TESLA to make the trip possible for me.

Robert,

I'm not suggesting that elaborate luxuries are a necessity. However, I am fairly sure that Tesla is not going to place a Supercharger in a location without restrooms and food at a minimum.

Larry

- - - Updated - - -


I can't get those links to work for some reason...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hi Steve,

Thanks. Try them now.

Larry

- - - Updated - - -


Now I understand you. But I think that, in this case, you are asking Tesla to do Disney's job (or the hotel's job, etc.). Superchargers are specifically designed to enable long-distance travel from one city to another... and PSL does exactly that. 150 miles to Miami, 100-110 miles to Orlando depending on where you're going: perfect. Once in Orlando, local charging is your responsibility, not Tesla's.

Or, to put it another way, it is Disney who is failing to serve your needs, not Tesla!

Please note that I'm not telling you what to think! I am simply saying that Tesla has never accepted responsibility for local charging, so I don't think there's any chance of them doing what you hope they'll do. Tesla doesn't consider it their job to do what you want... so whether you or I or anyone else might think differently, I think you'll simply have to find other ways to charge in Orlando.

Here's a Walgreens very close to Disney with a 30A Chargepoint charger: 7765 W Irlo Bronson Memorial Hwy (http://maps.yahoo.com/place/?lat=28.339514401027802&lon=-81.59331321716309&q=7765%20W%20Irlo%20Bronson%20Memorial%20Hwy%2C%20Kissimmee%2C%20Florida%2034747&bb=28.41646572483292%2C-81.67253494262695%2C28.262563077222683%2C-81.51409149169922&addr=7765%20W%20Irlo%20Bronson%20Memorial%20Hwy%2C%20Kissimmee%2C%20FL%2034747-1727). I'm sure there are many other publicly-accessible chargers.

Hi Rodolfo,

Yes, I agree.

I have no objection to Tesla eventually locating a Supercharger in a strategic location near Orlando, but now when Superchargers are scarce it would be better not to waste a Supercharger on a destination city that has lots of overnight charging at hotels.

Map of Florida Hotels with Electric Charging Stations (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202862723324051126823.0004c8228b863631d2e05&msa=0&hl=en&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=27.381523,-82.55127&spn=4.681668,7.03125&z=7&source=embed)

(Zoom into the Orlando area to view the available hotels with chargers.)

Larry

[DonD]

As has been pointed out, the map of planned supercharger locations would seem to serve travel along both coasts of Florida quite well. However, anyone wishing to travel Florida's Turnpike Mainline across the center of the state is at a disadvantage. Google maps shows the distance between Town Center Plaza in Port St. Lucie (confirmed supercharger location) and Lake City (approximate intersection of I-75 and I-10) as being 269 miles. If we examine the mid-point for such a trip we find that the intersection of Route 50 and Route 27 in Clermont is 137 miles from both the Port St. Lucie supercharger and from Lake City; easily doable with a 60kWh Model S!

There is a new interchange for the Turnpike planned near milepost 279, just a few miles north of the recently renovated (mile 272) interchange at Route 50 in Clermont. It is interesting to note that the city council, staff, and community of Clermont (the largest city in Lake County) are currently in the process of developing a "vision" for the city. I can assure you that some of the same discussions described on the official website for the City of Port St. Lucie will be taking place here. Whether any of this might fit into Tesla's plans is simply a guess.

Don

[Larry Chanin]

As has been pointed out, the map of planned supercharger locations would seem to serve travel along both coasts of Florida quite well. However, anyone wishing to travel Florida's Turnpike Mainline across the center of the state is at a disadvantage. Google maps shows the distance between Town Center Plaza in Port St. Lucie (confirmed supercharger location) and Lake City (approximate intersection of I-75 and I-10) as being 269 miles. If we examine the mid-point for such a trip we find that the intersection of Route 50 and Route 27 in Clermont is 137 miles from both the Port St. Lucie supercharger and from Lake City; easily doable with a 60kWh Model S!

There is a new interchange for the Turnpike planned near milepost 279, just a few miles north of the recently renovated (mile 272) interchange at Route 50 in Clermont. It is interesting to note that the city council, staff, and community of Clermont (the largest city in Lake County) are currently in the process of developing a "vision" for the city. I can assure you that some of the same discussions described on the official website for the City of Port St. Lucie will be taking place here. Whether any of this might fit into Tesla's plans is simply a guess.

Don

Don,

You make a good point about diagonal travel across the state being stretched, but isn't it over 8 miles, one-way, from the Turnpike Interchange at Route 50 to Clemont?

Do you have a particular host location in mind?

Thanks.

Larry

[DonD]

Larry,

Yeah - it's about 6 1/2 miles from interchange 272 to the intersection of Routes 50 & 27. The planned additional interchange will be very close.

No specific host location identified yet, but there is a Publix shopping center (with a Belk department store) at the north-east intersection of US 27, Grand Hwy, and Citrus Tower Blvd with a large parking lot. This is right across the street from the Florida Citrus Tower (Built in 1955 and towering over 500 feet above sea level, The Citrus Tower is noted being one of Florida's first attractions. The glass observation deck allows visitors to observe the panoramic views.)

Don

[Larry Chanin]

Larry,

Yeah - it's about 6 1/2 miles from interchange 272 to the intersection of Routes 50 & 27. The planned additional interchange will be very close.

No specific host location identified yet, but there is a Publix shopping center (with a Belk department store) at the north-east intersection of US 27, Grand Hwy, and Citrus Tower Blvd with a large parking lot. This is right across the street from the Florida Citrus Tower (Built in 1955 and towering over 500 feet above sea level, The Citrus Tower is noted being one of Florida's first attractions. The glass observation deck allows visitors to observe the panoramic views.)

Don
Don,
According to Google Clermont is 8 miles one-way from the new interchange. I fear that the 16 mile round trip to get back on the Turnpike will make it a not so strategic location.
Larry
EDIT: Sorry Don I misunderstood. Where is the new interchange going? Can you give an intersection with an existing road? I can't see milepost 279 on Google maps.

[aviators99]

As has been pointed out, the map of planned supercharger locations would seem to serve travel along both coasts of Florida quite well. However, anyone wishing to travel Florida's Turnpike Mainline across the center of the state is at a disadvantage. Google maps shows the distance between Town Center Plaza in Port St. Lucie (confirmed supercharger location) and Lake City (approximate intersection of I-75 and I-10) as being 269 miles. If we examine the mid-point for such a trip we find that the intersection of Route 50 and Route 27 in Clermont is 137 miles from both the Port St. Lucie supercharger and from Lake City; easily doable with a 60kWh Model S!

There is a new interchange for the Turnpike planned near milepost 279, just a few miles north of the recently renovated (mile 272) interchange at Route 50 in Clermont. It is interesting to note that the city council, staff, and community of Clermont (the largest city in Lake County) are currently in the process of developing a "vision" for the city. I can assure you that some of the same discussions described on the official website for the City of Port St. Lucie will be taking place here. Whether any of this might fit into Tesla's plans is simply a guess.

Don

But I think you are missing the point. Right now, the goal is to enable travel between origin and destination. Tesla isn't trying to cover every possible route to get there. To go from Port St. Lucie to Lake city by the turnpike is 3 hours, 45 minutes. To travel via I-95, through Jacksonville is 3 hours, 51 minutes. A difference of 6 minutes, according to Google Maps. There would be 2 Superchargers along that route, one at 151 miles from PSL, and the next one 30 miles later. The distance from the 2nd one to Lake City is 116 miles.

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Btw, Gainesville is not as straightforward. It will cost you an extra 40 minutes. But it's still pretty easy. There's a direct route from the "Palm Coast" SC to Gainesville.

[DonD]

But I think you are missing the point. Right now, the goal is to enable travel between origin and destination. Tesla isn't trying to cover every possible route to get there. To go from Port St. Lucie to Lake city by the turnpike is 3 hours, 45 minutes. To travel via I-95, through Jacksonville is 3 hours, 51 minutes. A difference of 6 minutes, according to Google Maps. There would be 2 Superchargers along that route, one at 151 miles from PSL, and the next one 30 miles later. The distance from the 2nd one to Lake City is 116 miles.

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Btw, Gainesville is not as straightforward. It will cost you an extra 40 minutes. But it's still pretty easy. There's a direct route from the "Palm Coast" SC to Gainesville.

Point well taken - you can still get there without adding too many miles or too much time to your trip. (I just dislike driving I-95, and prefer the Turnpike - seems to be less traffic.)