View Full Version : Model X--Tow capable?
AnOutsider
02-08-2012, 08:43 AM
Elon tweeted last night that the x will have enough torque to pull another SUV (sorry, mobile so can't grab the link easily)
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WarpedOne
02-08-2012, 08:49 AM
Torque is not the problem, problem is average power i.e. PEM, and motor cooling .
roblab
02-08-2012, 08:52 AM
Elon tweeted last night that the x will have enough torque to pull another SUV (sorry, mobile so can't grab the link easily)
Would make a great advertisement. It sounds like it would also pull a large economy sized boat. They ought to do the Dodge ad, panning from the rear, where he is towing about 5 trailers AND his big SUV. Only put the X in front towing him and his junk.
AnOutsider
02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
Woops I misread. He said out tow not tow any
jcstp
02-08-2012, 08:54 AM
@scottkpotter Scott Potter
@elonmusk will the X have a tow package? Tow capacity?
Elon Musk
elonmusk Elon Musk
@
@scottkpotter Model X will be able to out tow almost any SUV or light truck. It has incredible torque.
That statement is vague enough to be wrong and right at the same time :confused: No way the X is going to be able to tow the way a 3/4-1 ton diesel, which qualify as a light truck.
Elon Musk
elonmusk Elon Musk
@
@scottkpotter Model X will be able to out tow almost any SUV or light truck. It has incredible torque.
Not seeing that tweet in Elon's history. Might he have changed his mind and deleted it? (Or maybe I just can't see it.)
Mycroft
02-08-2012, 11:36 AM
He's deleted tweets in the past, including one recently that harshly criticized AT&T, but that tweet is still there. You have to click through to his Twitter home page to see it since he did an @reply.
jkirkebo
02-08-2012, 11:39 AM
That statement is vague enough to be wrong and right at the same time :confused: No way the X is going to be able to tow the way a 3/4-1 ton diesel, which qualify as a light truck.
Wasn't the statement "tow another SUV" ? Even a BMW 5-series can do that, the european version has a tow rating of ~4400 lbs. Even my VW Touran can tow 2900 lbs.
tdelta1000
02-08-2012, 11:41 AM
Torque is not the problem, problem is average power i.e. PEM, and motor cooling .
I agree but I do feel that TM would have addressed those concerns during development. Now it's wait and see until full details are revealed about the X.
bonnie1194
02-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Wasn't the statement "tow another SUV" ? Even a BMW 5-series can do that, the european version has a tow rating of ~4400 lbs. Even my VW Touran can tow 2900 lbs.
No, it was 'out tow', meaning 'out perform'. At least that was my take on it.
He never said how far .... :)
Beavis
02-08-2012, 12:09 PM
Would make a great advertisement. It sounds like it would also pull a large economy sized boat. They ought to do the Dodge ad, panning from the rear, where he is towing about 5 trailers AND his big SUV. Only put the X in front towing him and his junk.
Do not tow me and my junk!
AnOutsider
02-08-2012, 12:14 PM
Wasn't the statement "tow another SUV" ? Even a BMW 5-series can do that, the european version has a tow rating of ~4400 lbs. Even my VW Touran can tow 2900 lbs.
I thought it was, but when I went back it said "out tow". Maybe he deleted and corrected
Norbert
02-08-2012, 01:27 PM
It seems meanwhile Elon removed the tweet.
That statement is vague enough to be wrong and right at the same time :confused: No way the X is going to be able to tow the way a 3/4-1 ton diesel, which qualify as a light truck.
Not sure whether you misunderstood in the same way as AnOutsider. The tweet meant that due to its high torque, the Model X can tow more than most SUVs/light trucks (out-tow as in out-run). Or is that unlikely?
Norbert
02-08-2012, 01:34 PM
He never said how far .... :)
Yeah, probably requires an extra cautionary statement: "You can't tow a big boat *and* have the same range at the same time"... in an extra "Disclaimers" page on the website.
Yeah, he really can't be talking about the 3/4 or 1 ton diesels. It's not just the power train but the chassis that they've got on the Model X (I assume). Those pickups can handle huge amounts of weight and, as a result, have pretty stiff suspensions and heavy frames.
Also, they put out in the neighborhood of 800lb/ft of torque. It would be awesome if the Model X has similar numbers but I kind of doubt that it will be able to handle 15,000 lbs.
Waverider
02-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Who cares how much you can tow if you don't have the range to get anywhere? Saying the 160-mile S is fine because it's just a daily commuter is one thing. Towing for recreation is something completely different. Almost by definition, you're going to be towing something (boat, quads, bikes, etc.) somewhere at a significant distance from your house. Here in southern california, you'll probably be driving out into the desert to go offroading with your toys. Good luck charging for the return trip. So for the X to be a viable towing vehicle is going to have to have either more dense, or just more, batteries than the 300-mile S.
Norbert
02-08-2012, 04:44 PM
Who cares how much you can tow if you don't have the range to get anywhere? Saying the 160-mile S is fine because it's just a daily commuter is one thing. Towing for recreation is something completely different. Almost by definition, you're going to be towing something (boat, quads, bikes, etc.) somewhere at a significant distance from your house. Here in southern california, you'll probably be driving out into the desert to go offroading with your toys. Good luck charging for the return trip. So for the X to be a viable towing vehicle is going to have to have either more dense, or just more, batteries than the 300-mile S.
I suppose a lot of people choose recreations not too far from where they live.
While those who live further away from their favorite places might have to wait for battery tech to improve, we'll eventually have 500+ mile batteries and/or a good infrastructure, and by then Tesla will have a variety of cars ready to take advantage of them.
Lloyd
02-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Who cares how much you can tow if you don't have the range to get anywhere? Saying the 160-mile S is fine because it's just a daily commuter is one thing. Towing for recreation is something completely different. Almost by definition, you're going to be towing something (boat, quads, bikes, etc.) somewhere at a significant distance from your house. Here in southern california, you'll probably be driving out into the desert to go offroading with your toys. Good luck charging for the return trip. So for the X to be a viable towing vehicle is going to have to have either more dense, or just more, batteries than the 300-mile S.
Use the supercharger in Baker to get home!
Not sure whether you misunderstood in the same way as AnOutsider. The tweet meant that due to its high torque, the Model X can tow more than most SUVs/light trucks (out-tow as in out-run). Or is that unlikely?I understood the tweet correctly and think he overstated the case, maybe not realizing exactly how large some of the vehicles in the "light truck" category really are. Since the tweet seems to be gone I'd say someone pointed out his error.
Who cares how much you can tow if you don't have the range to get anywhere? ....
Towing is not only for recreation. Businesses from car detailers, construction, nurserys, solar installers (!), carterers, and horses use towing. Having a small container trailer allows a Small Business owner to have a vehicle that is not dedicated only to moving products or tools. Unhook and they have a Model X gas-free daily driver.
4084
There are a dozen of the utility trailer companies with hundreds of models
http://wellscargo.com/wellscargo-trailers/models/ (http://wellscargo.com/wellscargo-trailers/models/)
http://www.paceamerican.com/
http://www.haulmark.com/specialty-trailer/
Norbert
02-08-2012, 07:46 PM
I understood the tweet correctly and think he overstated the case, maybe not realizing exactly how large some of the vehicles in the "light truck" category really are. Since the tweet seems to be gone I'd say someone pointed out his error.
Since I don't know much about "light trucks", and also not what to expect from Model X in this regard, I looked up some 3/4 and "1-Ton Diesel Truck"s. So far they usually seem to have 260-400 hp. While I wouldn't be surprised if some have more than that, with apparently 435 hp, the Model S seems to compare pretty well at least in this regard, and I wouldn't expect less from the Model X. And in general electric cars are said to compare well regarding torque. So I can't tell (yet) why you expect the case to be overstated.
The number 435 hp for Model S is from here: The iconic Tesla Model S | The Green Energy Consulting Group (http://www.green-and-energy.com/blog/the-iconic-tesla-model-s/)
I didn't find any other info on that.
As someone mentioned above the frame and load carrying is also a consideration in towing. Unibody is not usually the choice for heavy towing. Plus the constant load on the pack from high sustained current levels to deliver all the required torque, which still probably won't match most large diesels. Then there is the fact that the tweet is gone....
efusco
02-10-2012, 07:26 AM
Did anyone ask last night about towing capability for the Model X?
I'm beginning to see a number of things that would turn people off of this car already. The Falcon wings that will let in rain, be an issue in snow and may not work in many garages. The lack of a traditional ski rack (even if they have some fancy motorized option, that's going to be heavy and expensive), and no word on towing capability which will be important for some.
I'm not out to dispariage this thing, and I'm sure lots more info will come out over the next several months. Maybe the falcon wings are just an option and there will be traditional doors for those who don't want wings or who want a traditional luggage rack.
I just think that if they want to compete in the SUV market then they need to cater to the options that SUV buyers consider important and, so far, other than the traction control and seating I'm not seeing much effort at that.
WhiteKnight
02-10-2012, 09:34 AM
I thought Elon's introduction of the Model X was very sparse on details. I expected him to talk a lot more in depth about the capabilities of the X.
I think in the end they figured that they didn't want to say something they would have to retract.
I was told by a rep that the range on the Model X would suffer when towing about the same as the range of an ICE when towing.
I think it was said somewhere in this forum that depending on the weight range could suffer from 30-50% and I don't tow anything but I could see MPG on an ICE drop from 18 to 9-12 MPG when towing heavy stuff.
Robert.Boston
02-11-2012, 11:06 AM
If "range anxiety" is the only reason Tesla wouldn't support towing, that's a pretty piss-poor reason. Running A/C also reduces range, but they're installing that! Being able to haul my brush trailer 10 miles to the dump and back would be very convenient, and I'm sure that an 85kWh battery has more than enough juice for that.
I'm sure they will support towing, I just think Elon may have gotten carried away in his description of the capabilities.
WhiteKnight
02-11-2012, 11:18 AM
If "range anxiety" is the only reason Tesla wouldn't support towing, that's a pretty piss-poor reason. Running A/C also reduces range, but they're installing that! Being able to haul my brush trailer 10 miles to the dump and back would be very convenient, and I'm sure that an 85kWh battery has more than enough juice for that.
If you get a Model X, I think you'll be able to haul your brush trailer to the dump faster and with better handling than any other vehicle if your trailer can handle it!
And I think that's the point to this. The Model X will do great hauling and towing stuff. But you might "burn" 20 miles of range hauling stuff 10 miles.
So someone with a Model X can tow a nice boat (or something similarly heavy) with ease for 100 miles. But the added weight and drag of towing will slice your range by as much as 50%. So there's little chance of driving on the highway 70 miles to your lake house and returning the same day without recharging. Whereas with an ICE you don't even think about range.
domenick
04-27-2012, 03:10 PM
So, yes, Model X will have a towing option (http://green.autoblog.com/2012/04/27/model-x-will-have-excellent-towing-capability-despite-photo-mo/).
Norbert
04-27-2012, 05:29 PM
So there's little chance of driving on the highway 70 miles to your lake house and returning the same day without recharging. Whereas with an ICE you don't even think about range.
Unless you have a 20 KW charger at your lake house.
WhiteKnight
04-28-2012, 06:49 PM
Unless you have a 20 KW charger at your lake house.
I think that qualifies as "recharging."
Norbert
04-28-2012, 07:05 PM
I think that qualifies as "recharging."
Yeah, sorry, I guess I was trying to say that a 10 or 20 kW charger (depending on how long you stay and how much charge you would need) might be preferable to having an extra ICE for that reason.
EDIT: BTW, When driving in remote areas I do think a lot about range, and where to find gas stations, with an ICE, as I don't like topping off all the time.