View Full Version : Fisker Eco-Chic
tonybelding
10-31-2007, 07:50 AM
From CarScoop via AutoblogGreen. . .
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10/31/detroit-2008-preview-fisker-hybrid-revealed/
I'm not sure about the grinning grill, and I definitely wouldn't want those wheels on the production cars, but otherwsie. . . This car is a knockout! It's beautiful!
I'll reserve further enthusiasm until after more has been revealed about what's under the hood. There's also the question of whether I could ever bring myself to drive a car named "Eco-Chic", no matter how it looks.
dsacks6
10-31-2007, 09:06 AM
Agreed it is very pretty.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/10/fisker1-450.jpg
http://www.autobloggreen.com/media/2007/10/csp_fiskerhby-1.jpg
I agree it's a beautifully curved car. (with grill reservations as well).
It's a CG car though, so does that mean they do not even have a mule yet?
I have always liked this one.
Fisker AM 4 door
tonybelding
11-01-2007, 05:55 AM
Fisker hasn't actually manufactured cars before this, am I right?
Where are they going to assemble 15,000 cars per year?
It seems to me they'll either have to build their own factory (as Tesla are doing in New Mexico) or else they'll have to contract out the assembly to some established player (as Tesla are doing with Lotus).
There aren't many options in terms of companies who will assemble cars other than their own branded products. Lotus couldn't handle that kind of capacity, and the only other one that immediately comes to my mind is Magna. (Yes, the same company who are supplying the new Roadster transmission.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_International
Tesla has mentioned larger expansion plans for New Mexico. Perhaps the "Eco Chic" isn't the Whitestar, but perhaps Tesla could be planning to build "Eco Chic" for Fisker alongside the Whitestar? Perhaps Whitestar will just be the "full BEV" version of the "Eco Chic"?
Some other small manufacturers do exist... Saleen, Shelby, Panoz, etc.
Tesla has mentioned larger expansion plans for New Mexico. Perhaps the "Eco Chic" isn't the Whitestar, but perhaps Tesla could be planning to build "Eco Chic" for Fisker alongside the Whitestar? Perhaps Whitestar will just be the "full BEV" version of the "Eco Chic"?
I didn't want to go there because it's pure speculation... but thats what this thread is, right? I agree, TEG. Tesla may be considering partnering up with someone (aka, Fisker) to give them the capital they need and a broader selection of vehicles to market.
donauker
01-09-2008, 07:48 PM
Time for a update on this thread. The unveiling is only 4 days away!
Fisker Automotive Inc. is a joint venture between Henrik Fisker (Fisker Coachbuild LLC) and Quantum Technologies
Quantum Technologies Press Release (http://www.qtww.com/files/qtww_press/071113%20QT%20Fisker%20Automotive%20Joint%20Venture%20Releases%20First%20Image.p df)
Fisker Automotive (http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/)
Quantum Technologies (http://www.qtww.com/products/fisker/fisker.php)
Quantum Technologies would appear to have quite a bit of engine, powertrain and alternative fuel vehicle experience. Their customers include Toyota and GM.
It has been reported to have a 50 mile battery only range with either gas or diesel engine range extender.
Green Car Congress (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/fisker-and-quan.html)
Show me a 50 mile all electric range with a B100 capable diesel range extender and I will need to place a preorder deposit!
Time for a update on this thread. The unveiling is only 4 days away!
Show me a 50 mile all electric range with a B100 capable diesel range extender and I will need to place a preorder deposit!
Do you have a source that they'll unveil at Detroit or something? Geeze, I almost forgot about these guys. Hope you're right.
donauker
01-10-2008, 06:57 AM
Do you have a source that they'll unveil at Detroit or something?
Click on the Fisker Automotive link above. The countdown clock is running!
Click on the Fisker Automotive link above. The countdown clock is running!
Naturally the only link I didn't click. Thanks, this is exciting!
Their website says $100,000 for the premium signature cars 1-100; sound familiar? Otherwise, MSRP is $80,000, by about 2010. So far, no EV manufacturer has hit its target production date.
Kardax
01-10-2008, 09:15 AM
That price puts them squarely in the "luxury sedan" market. There are good profit margins to be found in that business, but owners also have very high expectations of their vehicles... I'm not sure if an automotive startup would be able to achieve them with their first model...
It'll be easier to gauge their chances of success after they publish more information about the car... but for now I remain pessimistic.
-Ryan
donauker
01-10-2008, 10:14 AM
I was very skeptical of Fisker Automotive when I first saw the announcement. (I figured it was just another ZAP-X) But after reading the following comment by TruDat on Green Car Congress I decided to take a closer look.
Maybe I can help shed some light on some of the questions poster are asking and that are being answered by other posters who don't know the facts but purport to. Fisker Automotive is a joint venture between Fisker Coachbuild and Quantum Fuelsystems. Quantum (QTWW) merged with Tecstar Automotive a couple years ago. Most of you have probably never heard of Tecstar, they have about 25 years experience in developing high end prototype vehicles for GM, their list of accomplishments include the Buick Grand National, 2Oth Anniversary Firebird, GMC Cyclone, GMC Typhoon, and the C5 Corvette. They also developed the Turbo version of the Porsche 944. So needless to say they have developed some of the most technologically advanced vehicles of their time. They then moved into actual production of vehicles and built every Z71 version of Chevy trucks and SUVs for several years. So they have experience in both creating high end prototypes and production of vehicles on a mass scale (millions). They also develop and build vehicles for Foose (Chip Foose) including the Foose Mustang and new Foose F-150. Never before has there been a hybrid that looks great, gets 100MPG and actually has some performance so it will be fun to drive.
Review of their web site seemed to back up most of these claims and being a public company a quick glance at their financials showed that they did have over a million square feet of facilities across the country.
Based on this, I decided to keep an open mind and see what they have to show.
From Autopia a write up on the Fisker, and the fact that its Silicon Valley VC that is funding the company...Click Here (http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/01/detroit-best-in.html#more).
A lot of "Wired" announcements on that page.
A nunber that seems to keep poping up is 40 miles per charge. I know it's based on battery "limitations" but I also got a feeling that they are trying to burn that number into the public's brain as all you can (ever) get from batteries.
Kardax
01-16-2008, 09:07 AM
A nunber that seems to keep poping up is 40 miles per charge. I know it's based on battery "limitations" but I also got a feeling that they are trying to burn that number into the public's brain as all you can (ever) get from batteries.
There might be some truth to it. All RE-EV vehicles I've seen so have chosen to use higher-cycle-life-lower-density battery formulations.
Pure battery EVs can get higher range because they can use lower-cycle-life-high-density batteries, simply because they're not cycled as aggressively. They can use the weight and space saved from the engine and gas tank for more cells.
-Ryan
Oddly today I noticed the banner "Eco-Chic" on the LED billboard (http://www.siliconview.com/about.htm) in front of Tesla's building that faces highway 101 (http://www.mozartdev.com/feat_05_circle_star.php). It turned out to be an advert for the Ford Escape Hybrid. (Tesla doesn't control the billboard).
Brent
01-18-2008, 09:40 AM
Does anyone know the approximate shortest time period it would take (in theory) to get a new car from drawing board to sales?
Fisker is saying the Karma could be out as soon as 2009-2010. This time frame seems optimistic, perhaps unrealistic. Don't GM and Toyota take three to four years to get through the process? That would mean 2011-2012 at the earliest.
We don't know how far Fisker is along in the process. Maybe they have had prototypes already running durability tests for a while now?
"Maybe they have had prototypes already running durability tests for a while now?"
Unlikely.
With as much preparation and fanfare they built up to debut at the Detroit auto show and the website, they would put the best and most complete car in front of the public and press.
If they had a working car they would have said. If they had a working car it would have been there. The debut publicity is more important than testing. Tesla did it.
Was it confirmed that the show car was non-working? Somehow I missed that bit.
It's all the references to "claims" what the car "will do" in future tense. Plus there is no video or photographs of it running, or shots under the hood, no illustrations of an exploded view, no cutaway or even a simple block diagram, just Henrik's description in the video. No way this car works. I bet they were still attaching parts to the prototype when it was being unpacked at the show.
Future talk here: Top 10 ConceptsÂ*- 2008 Detroit Auto Show - MSN Autos (http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/Detroit2008/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=6015212)
Here they say "goal": 2008 Detroit Auto Show: 2010 Fisker Karma (http://www.autobytel.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/2861)
Other Karma bits:
dan neil on the Karma (smacks on that grill):
Los Angeles Times: New Car News : Buzzworthy products, events and technology (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2008/01/detroit-2008-he.html)
more pics
Detroit 2008: Fisker Karma draws a crowd, impresses - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/14/detroit-2008-fisker-karma-draws-a-crowd-impresses/)
kinda looks like http://www.shorey.net/Auto/American/Chrysler/199x%20Chrysler%20300%20Concept%20Car%20Frt%20Qtr.jpg (http://www.shorey.net/Auto/American/Chrysler/199x%20Chrysler%20300%20Concept%20Car%20Frt%20Qtr.jpg)
ny times brief
Fisker Karma - Detroit Auto Show - Fisker, a Little Company With Big Dreams - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/automobiles/autoshow/14-fisker.html?em&ex=1200805200&en=98857b1b7aaa9868&ei=5087%0A)
still more pics
KickingTires: 2008 Detroit Auto Show: Fisker Karma Plug-In Hybrid (http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/01/fisker-hyrbid-k.html)
invester info:
Detroit Auto Show: The Jalopnik 2008 Detroit Auto Show Automaker Report Card (http://jalopnik.com/344961/the-jalopnik-2008-detroit-auto-show-automaker-report-card)
They did talk about how it sounds when running in sport mode (having the ICE & eMotor running at the same time), so it sound like they have some sort of prototype running. Also Quantum has been doing related projects for a while now, so I bet much of the drivetrain is already pre-proven in other models (some of them secret military vehicles).
From all the pics I didn't see any telltales signs that it was unfinished. Sure they didn't show anything under the hood, but the rest of the car looks like a ready to go, complete product.
I'm a little surprised they haven't taken the Tesla model of "transparency" simply for the marketing aspect. If they are truly far enough along to be taking orders, why not have the blogs, forums, etc.?
In this new economy of selling cars on the Internet, why not? Plus People are so mad at Tesla for their treatment of the founders (inter alia), I think they could steal Tesla's thunder b/c this is the Whitestar.
"From all the pics I didn't see any telltales signs that it was unfinished. Sure they didn't show anything under the hood, but the rest of the car looks like a ready to go, complete product."
I agree. I strained to find anything "muleish" in the pics and video with no success.
But then, that's what Henrik does, isn't it?
:wink:
Daryl confirms (but):
(Fisker) is already quoting a price and taking reservations on a car that isn't even in drivable prototype phase.
...The car is not a driver and has not been validated or tested yet. Designing and integrating the battery pack alone is going to be a very big undertaking...
He points out it's even worse since this design is "locked" and that now the powertrain designers have to fit everything in.
In the Henrik interview at 10:10 he says he's driven a prototype.
So we are both right. This one does not work and they do have some sort of prototype running.
Horseless Age: Fisker Automotive (http://sirycars.blogspot.com/2008/01/fisker-automotive.html)
Another thing worth pointing out is Tesla's choice to show the Roadster at a drive/party event ignoring a debut at a traditional cars show in LA or Detroit.
I belive Martin's timeline speech hints they were about to be outed anyway (Martin can you confirm?) but Tesla still only attends shows when they can get free booth space from suppliers.
Fisker's Detroit booth was probably $100K+
The Tesla event was probably less but they were also giving rides at 100mph.
Yeah, I recall (but don't remember where) reading that Telsa forced the roadster intro a bit sooner than intended. Still, they did have the sneak peek in "Who Killed the Electric Car", so they were already starting to let the "cat out of the bag" on their own.
To this day, I am still amazed at the big names they had at the intro party. I wonder how they managed such a guest list. Someone big in Hollywood must have been in the know ahead of time.
VFX, thanks for pointing out Daryl's blog.
It makes me conclude two things I wasn't sure about:
#1: Tesla isn't likely helping Fisker in any way.
#2: Whitestar project is still alive (contrary to the ugly rumors).
tonybelding
01-21-2008, 06:21 AM
I agree. I strained to find anything "muleish" in the pics and video with no success.
But then, that's what Henrik does, isn't it?
:wink:
It's a beautiful car, I would even say moreso than the Tesla Roadster. . . . except for the front grille. Some have compared it to a handlebar mustache, some have compared it to the Joker's demented grin.
The funniest comment I saw was: "A sports car should look like a shark, not a whale. You could filter a lot of krill with that grille."
Does it even make sense for a green car, an efficient car, to have a front grille? Isn't it just a shiny affectation that adds weight and disrupts the air flow?
It's a beautiful car, I would even say moreso than the Tesla Roadster. . . . except for the front grille. Some have compared it to a handlebar mustache, some have compared it to the Joker's demented grin.
Multiple articles have said it looks like it has a "Cheshire cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat)" grin.
http://www.porscheshire.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/s-cheshire-cat-blotter-art.jpg.w300h300.jpghttp://www.laughinglizards.com/images/Untitledy.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2008/1/11/9080111.014/9080111.014.Mini3L.jpg
Here (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2008/01/detroit-2008-he.html), they say "...what's with that grille? This unusually lovely four-seater sports a hideous rictus of aluminum. The car looks as if it has been huffing nitrogen oxide. Easily fixed, a company investor confided, and soon will be."...
donauker
01-21-2008, 12:49 PM
Glad to hear that they are open to changing the grill style. With the correct grill style the exterior would truly be a thing of beauty.
I still have have some reservations on the 80's SciFi instrumentation though. What are others thoughts on this?
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2008/1/15/3080115.001/1037big.jpg
I still have have some reservations on the 80's SciFi instrumentation though. What are others thoughts on this?
Been there, done that.
I still have have some reservations on the 80's SciFi instrumentation though. What are others thoughts on this?
I sortof like it. I suppose I could do without all those chrome circles.
The multi-color EL bar graphs seem workable, but there are certainly other interiors I like more.
You might want to revisit the Whitestar dashboard (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/future-cars/383-whitesstar-dashboard.html) thread. The Nissan GT-R and Lexus IS300 dashboards are more "my cup of tea".
donauker
01-21-2008, 02:28 PM
I am sure I could get used to the display but I see the touch controls as a potentially huge PITA. No tactile feedback on location and operation.
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2008/1/15/3080115.001/1019big.jpg
http://images.worldcarfans.com/articles/2008/1/15/3080115.001/1015big.jpg
Brushed aluminum can get really hot if in the sunlight. I hope they don't have a problem with that.
I have seen some new phones with touch-screen buttons. They have the phone momentarily vibrate each time a button press is accepted. There may be ways from vibrations to beeps to let you know that you are hitting the correct controls. I can't tell from the pictures if it would be acceptable to use or not. I think we would need to try it in person to know how well it works.
Multiple articles have said it looks like it has a "Cheshire cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat)" grin.
Personally, I think the grill looks like someone else.
41
Personally, I think the grill looks like someone else.
41
HAHAHA
To each his own. I'd love to own this car with specs like this, even if it looked like a ZAP.
Michael
01-23-2008, 03:45 AM
HAHAHA
To each his own. I'd love to own this car with specs like this, even if it looked like a ZAP.
I keep hoping that someone other than ZAP takes over and develops the ZAP-X, since ZAP won't be doing it!
I keep hoping that someone other than ZAP takes over and develops the ZAP-X, since ZAP won't be doing it!
Since there appear to be a few REEV sedan's coming to market in the next several years, Telsa may want to adopt ZAP-X and use it as the basis for WhiteStar. Pure EV of course! :biggrin:
I keep hoping that someone other than ZAP takes over and develops the ZAP-X, since ZAP won't be doing it!
Looks like ZAP-X doesn't have exclusive rights to PML in-wheel motors as once reported. That could be a sign the ZAP-X is not something to anticipate, ever.
Volvo: PML FlightLink is working "exclusively" with us (Zap-X delayed?) - AutoblogGreen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/22/volvo-pml-flightlink-is-working-exclusively-with-us-zap-x-de/#comments)
domenick
01-24-2008, 04:47 AM
Actually, according to ZAP, they have PML rights for 3 wheeled vehicles. They are working with a Chinese company for their in-wheel motors for the ZAP-X.
I wouldn't be surprised if ZAP does come through with a prototype vehicle or two this year. It seems like they are finally getting it together somewhat. Stranger things have happened.
Anyway, back to the Karma....it's a pretty good looking car from the outside but I prefer to be on the inside and I don't need to be reminded how badly I sucked at playing Tron when I'm driving. I prefer the Tesla. Inside and out.
Unfortunately, I can't even afford a Xebra. :frown: