Little Chef and Chargemaster installing UK national charging network

[dpeilow]

A big win for Mennekes in the UK with Little Chef...

UK Public EV Chargers Within 30 Miles by 2012 (http://www.ev.com/ev-components-parts/uk-public-ev-chargers-within-30-miles-by-2012.html)

Little Chef announces massive charge scheme - Autoblog UK (http://uk.autoblog.com/2011/10/04/little-chef-announces-massive-charge-scheme/)


http://www.blogcdn.com/uk.autoblog.com/media/2011/10/littlechef-popham-8474.jpg

http://www.ev.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Picture-5.png


Little Chef is a chain of roadside diners for those that don't know.

These are going to be 7kW but I hope they can be persuaded to install some 22kW or higher in strategic locations.


The station above is now open at Popham (popham little chef - Google Maps (http://g.co/maps/ka7jw)) which is 10 miles from here.

(The BBC South local news still managed a negative spin on this story)

[VolkerP]

So there are already two standard AC solutions racing head by head in UK, Mennekes and J1772. ZCW provides commando sockets. More enthusiasm establishes a HPC network. CHAdeMo makes significant progress. And Tesla states, their DC charging is going to be the solution. Sigh. Seems we have to repeat the lessons from Thirty Year's War?

[dpeilow]

There aren't that many J1772s. Not in public locations anyway. Most are in Leaf owners' garages.

We have plenty of J1772 cars but not charging posts.

[VolkerP]

Dave,

what are the current totals grouped by type of public charge point from the openchargemap database? UK only.

[dpeilow]

Not sure, can one of the OCM admins answer that?

[Kevin Sharpe]

ZCW provides commando socketsAll existing ZCW sites are designed to be upgraded to "mennekes" and in Q1 2013 we will deploy that socket as standard on our ~£250 Charging Stations.

We also expect to deploy some 32A and 63A 3-Phase using the same basic hardware... target price ~£500

After that maybe we need to look at a low cost CHAdeMO solution :wink:

[doug]

So there are already two standard AC solutions racing head by head in UK, Mennekes and J1772.
I don't really see those standards as competing. Since the model is to carry your own cable, J1772 can plug directly into Mennekes with an adapter cable. Though limited to single phase, it doesn't really matter since most those J1772 cars have puny 3.3kW chargers.

http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/tech/charging/SAE-J1772_to_IEC-62196.jpg

[Kevin Sharpe]

These are going to be 7kW but I hope they can be persuaded to install some 22kW or higher in strategic locations.I certainly don't want to spend several hours at a Little Chef waiting to charge at 32A... really need 63A as a minimum.

[fraccy]

Neither do I want to wait like that, but this is also about combating perceptions of range anxiety as well as making extending range practical. Its nice to know if you fall short that there are easily accessible options.... admittedly options with fairly revolting coffee, but options nonetheless.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Neither do I want to wait like that, but this is also about combating perceptions of range anxiety as well as making extending range practical.waiting for hours in a Little Chef does not combat range anxiety but reinforces it IMO (I would be really anxious that I'd have to spend 8 hours there!). We NEED these sites to understand that the absolute minimum charging rate for a 'motorway/trunk services' location is 63A AC and CHAdeMO DC because Tesla and Leaf drivers can then make a more appropriate length stop.

In reality you will find that these 32A sites simply go unused as people choose to go to more appealing locations up the road.

[dpeilow]

Agree.

Here are the locations for the first tranche of Little Chef charging points (http://littlechef.co.uk/downloads/electriccars/little-chef-car-charging-points-oct-2011.pdf)


http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2957&d=1317923430

2957

[Kevin Sharpe]

here is the text extracted from a number of Little Chef tweets following our criticism of their 7kW deployments;

"Hello everyone, thanks for your comments on our electric car chargers.

Little Chef are currently working with Nissan, looking into the feasibility of installing DC chargers. We wanted to put an offer in place, so we have, and we are now working towards faster solutions for the middle of next year.

William de Laszlo would like to invite anyone that would like input into our car charger offer to a lunch at 35 Davis St (W1K 4LS) on November 1st.

If you are interested please email Littlechef@cakegroup.com"


We are proposing to attend this lunch on masse and ensure that Little Chef are left in no doubt that we NEED 50kW DC (and 43kW AC) Fast Charging NOW.

We will be posting on the following Leaf Talk forum;

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/showthread.php/4455-Little-Chef-to-host-lunch-to-discuss-EV-Charging-1st-November?

[dpeilow]

Do we know that this William de Laszlo is actually with Little Chef? Google would suggest not. The address is a PR agency I believe.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Do we know that this William de Laszlo is actually with Little Chef? Google would suggest not. The address is a PR agency I believe.I will ask the question...

[Kevin Sharpe]

Do we know that this William de Laszlo is actually with Little Chef?Little Chef said today "William is a Director at RCapital, the investment company that are behind Little Chef" they also confirmed that he will be at the meeting on the 1st November.

I would encourage everyone in the UK to attend this meeting and help Little Chef understand why we need 50kW DC (CHAdeMO) and 44kW AC ("mennekes") and how that would make them THE on-route charging location.

[AndrewBissell]

I have requested an invite but not received one. I am re-requesting by a second email tonight.

[Kevin Sharpe]

I have requested an invite but not received one. I am re-requesting by a second email tonight.I have also chased them up on twitter

[AndrewBissell]

Just saw that Kevin, excellent!

[Kevin Sharpe]

Here's my report on the Little Chef meeting (lots more details to follow in the next few days)...

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/showthread.php/4455-Little-Chef-to-host-lunch-to-discuss-EV-Charging-1st-November?p=11674&viewfull=1#post11674

[fraccy]

Incidentally I visited the little chef (eastbound) near ringwood (Restaurant Details : Little Chef (http://littlechef.co.uk/findalittlechef/restaurant/id/143)) earlier today. The chargemaster point was on the wall of the restaurant (not immediately visible you have to go wandering to find it), and it appeared operational (unlike me, still without a mennekes adaptor :crying:). I've not seen a chargemaster point before. I found it odd that both the charge port flaps had been left ajar. I lifted each to see there was one 13A and one mennekes connector as expected, and closed them, after which I couldn't open them again.

On my way out, I asked a member of staff about it. I learned that:

- They keep rfid cards inside the restaurant you can borrow (with deposit) if you don't have one
- She claimed it was accessible 24 hours a day (and I could see nothing that would stop you getting to it after the restaurant had closed)
- In what she estimated was 6 weeks since it was installed, it has been used only once to her knowledge

[dpeilow]

Thanks for the update. I've also seen some photos of another location where they have the wall-mounted black points, as opposed to the red post in a prominent location in the press shots.

[fraccy]

That reminded me, I took a pic.

34623463

[Kevin Sharpe]

"Little Chef Charging Network - Not quite what I thought"

http://mynissanleafstory.blogspot.com/2011/12/little-chef-charging-network-not-quite.html

[fraccy]

Regarding that, I walked into the one at Popham, they gave me a form, and handed me a card which worked both there and at the other one I took pics of above.

Incidentally I've just found out that that one pictured above has already been taken away *sob*, because the restaurant is closing.

I've just spoken to someone at Chargemaster who offered the following about where points actually are:

I’m afraid we are a little in the dark too, it’s SSE who are doing the installs and they don’t update us or Little Chef. According to our records, you were charging at the SSE Depot!!

Here is the list I have:-
Little Chef Builth Wells, Station Road, Builth Wells LD2 3SS
Little Chef Honiton, A30, Honiton EX14 9QQ
Little Chef Winterbourne Abbas, Winterbourne Abbas, Dorchester DT2 9LU
Little Chef Weston on the Green, A34 South, Bicester OX25 3QQ
Little Chef Weston on the Green, A34 North, Bicester OX25 3QQ
Little Chef Bicester, A41/A421 Bicester Bypass, Bicester OX26 1BT
Little Chef Chippenham, Par Drive, Chippenham SN14 6UY
Little Chef Ripley, A3 Ripley, Guildford GU23 6PU
Little Chef Fontwell, Arundel Road A27, Fontwell BN18 0SB
Little Chef West Knoyle, Willoughby Hedge, West Knoyle, Warminster BA12 6AQ
Little Chef Chicklade, A303 Chicklade near Hindon SP3 5ST
Little Chef Popham, A303 Micheldever near Winchester SO21 3SP
Little Chef Royston, A505 Great North Road, Royston SG8 9NT

[dpeilow]

All pretty close to me. I pass the A303 ones regularly. I'll try to check on them.

[dpeilow]

I passed Fontwell last night and one of the outlets was showing red (out of use), the other blue (ok).

I then tried to charge at Chicklade this afternoon, but pulled in to find this:

https://p.twimg.com/Au4DTdWCMAIicaw.jpg:large

I went in to the restaurant and told the staff. A lady then asked customers who was parked there and the Nissan X-Trail driver got up but was clearly in a huff. At this point a guy paying said he was next to it and was leaving. I thought it was the Mondeo in shot, but it was another to the right.

So I pulled into the space and went back inside. The staff thought the post was broken but I said it looked ok to me. As the posts are supposed to be free of charge to use until the end of the year, I asked for the smartcard. Eventually I was given an envelope containing this.


I was told I could register over the internet, but at this point I thought "b****cks to this" and drove off. All this hassle for probably about 6 miles of charge. What a farce.


This was the second time this week I've had smartcard hassle. I was going to use Pod Point posts at Gatwick Airport but they are not yet pay-as-you-go and they couldn't remote activate it. When I got back to the airport last night, I had a look at the posts and they appeard to be turned off anyway!

I'm so glad I bought an EV with a back-up generator.