Road trips - feed back please.

[teslaspotter]

O.k., I used to drive pedal to the metal LA to SF, SF to Seattle... early seventies... mostly to get to gigs, but prefer the cruise-tour given the luxury of time. Lately, commuter types try to pin me down... How fast can a Tesla get to L.A. [from the S.F. Bay area]? This is as useless to me as the "gotta have a Roundtrip to Tahoe charge capacity" I am pretty sure these guys would not really want to go to L.A. with nothing more than 15 minute pit stop, but they insist.. So, are there any roadster owners who have made the trip and how did you pull it off timewise and routewise? I just need someone's experience, since I just don't have the range to even consider it.
Thanks for the info...

[TEG]

US 101 is the "Rabobank trail"...

http://www.evchargermaps.com/?SiteID=93401_4&Want=TSL&Zoom=7

[Lloyd]

I spent my weekend installing (3) NEMA 14-50 outlets in my garages for simultaneous charging of multiple vehicles. If anyone is stuck and needs a charge in San Luis Obispo, CA on the mid-way on the 101 between SF and LA give me a call. Yes, my electrical service can handle it, I have 460 amps available.

[dpeilow]

I spent my weekend installing (3) NEMA 14-50 outlets in my garages for simultaneous charging of multiple vehicles.

But how? Paul Eisenstien says this can't be...

[vfx]

That's great Lloyd thanks. The 101 is getting well populated for the LA SF LA trips!

[ChadS]

I've driven Seattle to San Diego and back. At the time I went, it was a bit of a pain because 70A chargers were only SF and South, so I had to use slower campground outlets North of that. Now there is a chain of 70A chargers from Canada to Mexico. Actually I guess there is still a gap in Oregon, but they expect to have it installed in a week or so.

I wasn't going for the shortest possible trip; in addition to using campgrounds I was visiting people along the way, so it took 4 days each way.

In Southern CA what I'd generally do is charge overnight, start off full, then stop at every HPC along the way. I wouldn't fill up; just charge while I was visiting/eating/getting coffee/etc. That made it pretty easy to go 400 miles per day, although it sounds like your friends want to go farther than that. With some dedication you could do 600 miles per day, but that's probably about the limit for L2 charging--~8 hours charging (during the day, in addition to overnight) and ~10 hours driving.

OR, WA and CA are all installing DC fast chargers. The only car that can use them now is the Leaf, so you would have to stop often because the pack is small. It would have to be equivalent to stopping every 80 miles for 25 minutes; stopping less would definitely help with throughput. Assuming (?) the Model S has a DC fast charge port, that would be really nice...

[Eberhard]

in Europe, NissanLeaf comes with AC-Charger 3-phases up to 63A = 44kW

[dpeilow]

in Europe, NissanLeaf comes with AC-Charger 3-phases up to 63A = 44kW

Really? The UK version is the same 16A AC / CHAdeMO DC combination as everywhere is.

[Eberhard]

In germany, it will have AC, because RWE supports the Mennekes-socket only up to 63A (normal 32A)

[Kevin Sharpe]

In germany, it will have AC, because RWE supports the Mennekes-socket only up to 63A (normal 32A)do you have a reference showing 3 phase support on the Leaf? My understanding was that Nissan would use CHAdeMO DC for fast charge not high current AC.

[Eberhard]

From the german wikipedia web side
Die Schnellladung an 400-V-Dreiphasenwechselstrom dauert nur 30 Minuten, stellt aber auch nur 80 % der Kapazität wieder her.[9]

It looks like Nissan made an adaption on local issues. RWE already offers charging station all around Germany using the Menekes-socket with 3-phase 400V and up to 63A (usually 32A). With up to 44kW available nearly everywhere without expensive DC-charging station it makes no sense for level-3 DC charging.

[teslaspotter]

I've driven Seattle to San Diego and back. At the time I went, it was a bit of a pain because 70A chargers were only SF and South, so I had to use slower campground outlets North of that. Now there is a chain of 70A chargers from Canada to Mexico. THanks Chad. May I ask you to review your trip more precisely for the time between <snip>
Thanks Chad. May I ask you to review your trip more precisely for the time between SF [or SV] and LA??? I am still hoping there are others testing the range envelope of their Teslas who have made this run. Not to sound sexist, but the guys asking hte question live in a normative world and respect data; each one gave me a set of parameters for the "trip" they "need" to make. Years ago they might've asked me if they could fit two golf bags in the Roadster.. The more precisely and concisely I am prepared with an answer, the more they respect the response.
thanks!

[teslaspotter]

in Europe, NissanLeaf comes with AC-Charger 3-phases up to 63A = 44kW
Would you please contact me offlist? visualeyes108[at]yahoo[dot]com
thank you!

[dpeilow]

I'd like to get confirmation of this three phase on the LEAF. Definitely not the case in UK and Ireland.

[Eberhard]

Nissan leafe is first delivered in portugal. e.mob currently supports 3-phase 400V32A. But I did not found any hint on nissans webside for 3-phase charging

[Kevin Sharpe]

I cannot find any reference to the Leaf supporting 3 Phase.... I'd be a little surprised if it did because Nissan have pretty much settled on DC for fast charge in the US, UK, and Japan.

[Eberhard]

the problem is the ignorance of the carmaker. they want to sell what they think the customer has to buy. I as a customer want to have 3-phase charging. For me its a must and i am willing to pay for the extra.
Nissan leaf without 3-phase charging is for me an absolute no go. I wont by it. And if Elon Musk cannot confirm 3-phase charging for Modell S, when i will see him next week at the Tesla Store Opening in Milan, I will cancel my order for Models S SE #37.
Instead i will ask BRUSA how to integrate the BRUSA 22kW charger into my Roadster. I cannot live with a 300miles package and wait 14h until i will be able to hit the road, to get to final destination. i cannot book always a hotel for that.

[Kevin Sharpe]

the problem is the ignorance of the carmaker.I fully understand your frustration. It's a challenge for everyone... multiple standards and a new industry is bound to result in chaos for a few years...

[ChadS]

Thanks Chad. May I ask you to review your trip more precisely for the time between SF [or SV] and LA???

Both directions I was visiting people in both LA and SF, so I left and arrived mid-day and spent the night in between, and I didn't keep track of exact times--so I can't give a meaningful number of hours that I was on the road, sorry.

However, Google says SF to LA is 381 miles, which will take about 6.5 hours of driving at the speed limit. Assuming I start with a full charge, at those speeds I'd need about exactly one full extra charge along the way to make that distance. It's around 4 hours for a full charge on the Rabobank HPCs; so I could make the trip in 10.5 hours.

That's assuming I drain the car, and then fill it up completely. I wouldn't (and didn't) do that; instead I stopped at every charger, and got a partial charge while doing something else--getting coffee, eating a meal, shopping, etc. That makes the drive more pleasant and is easier on the batteries, but more to the point it avoids charging the last 10% which goes slower. However, the multiple stops take a few extra minutes each, so it probably works out to about the same total amount of time.

If you don't make any stops (well, most gas cars would have to stop to refuel), and speed is your only goal, it's clear that a gas car is significantly faster--no argument there. If that's your daily commute, get a Volt or Prius. But if you stop for meals and restrooms and sightseeing anyway, and/or are concerned with cleaner/cheaper/more pleasant driving, I'd say the electric car wins. After a 3k trip, I would still much prefer to make my next trip in an EV than a gas car.

And if you usually drive the car for things other than this trip...well, the EV wins hands-down. Too many people focus on a little inconvenience for a once-a-year trip (for which they may well take another car, or fly instead anyway), but don't think about how much more convenient an EV is the other 364 days of the year.

[vfx]

... but don't think about how much more convenient an EV is the other 364 days of the year.

I like this.

"Are you buying a car for four days of slogging, or three hundred and sixty one days of fun?"

[dpeilow]

I've driven Seattle to San Diego and back. At the time I went, it was a bit of a pain because 70A chargers were only SF and South, so I had to use slower campground outlets North of that. Now there is a chain of 70A chargers from Canada to Mexico. Actually I guess there is still a gap in Oregon, but they expect to have it installed in a week or so.

Did this charger go in? Surprised not to have heard about it yet if it has. If the chain has been completed, that must be worth a celebratory beer or two...

[ChadS]

Sigh, not yet. "Should be soon." I gave 'em the darn thing months ago...I will definitely post an update when the chain is complete.

[TEG]

Other related topics:
PIA Blog: Tesla Trippin' (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3974-PIA-Blog-Tesla-Trippin)
SF to LA in an EV (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3939-SF-to-LA-in-an-EV)
CA Hwy 1 through Big Sur (http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/3427-CA-Hwy-1-through-Big-Sur)

[AndrewBissell]

Eberhard - please tell us about your European roadtrips.

[Eberhard]

i just arrived near Murcia in Spain where I will join tomorrow the teams from the zero-race. i am just charging my car in a caravan-side with only 10A. But for overnight thats ok. For the daytime charging we tried privat yachting ports, where we found 3-phases up to 125A. It's a shame to charge on 32A for 2-3 hours, knowing that the full use of 3-phase may be possible. the lenght of the daily trips are limited by this, but 350-400km is easy to achive. the powerconsumtion went down to around 140Wh/km. Yesterday Low was 129Wh/km because of heavy tailwind.

[AndrewBissell]

How easy was it to negotiate charging with the ports? Did they charge you?

[zack]

US 101 is the "Rabobank trail"...

http://www.evchargermaps.com/?SiteID=93401_4&Want=TSL&Zoom=7

This map is so excellent! Is there one for nationwide charging stations?

[Kevin Sharpe]

Is there one for nationwide charging stations?soon... http://www.openchargemap.org

[felixtb]

looking forward to it! I am not a programer how can we help you in the effort?

/fb

[Kevin Sharpe]

looking forward to it! I am not a programer how can we help you in the effort?at this time your encouragement is a great help.... once we go live then I think you can help in a number of ways, including;

(1) use a website/app that's using the OpenChargeMap database and tell everyone about it...

(2) add charge point data for locations that we are missing

(3) use the OpenChargeMap status feature to help us keep the database accurate

(4) contact your favourite website/app developer and ask them to use the OpenChargeMap database

(5) contact your local government programme and ask them why they are spending tax dollars developing a map database when a free, open, and global resource exists that they can use.

[Kevin Sharpe]

I am not a programer....I'm not a programmer either and with 6 contributing to the project it's a bit like working with a sack full of cats... amazing but challenging :wink:

[felixtb]

will try to help with all of the above as time goes on. hope you will be up and running soon. great work

/fb

[Eberhard]

who wants to follow my trip back from murcia to Luzern can follow the Blog of http://www.zerow-race.com See also the story of the Zerotracer as well of the australien team driving their TREV and the german team and the scooter Vetrix

[Kevin Sharpe]

minor typo (extra w)


http://www.zerow-race.com

http://www.zero-race.com/